General Category > A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2
So I'm downloading that demo...
keith.lamothe:
--- Quote from: chemical_art on March 24, 2012, 01:57:55 PM ---In my first experience:
7 deaths (bloody skelebots trapping me)
Out of mana! Out of mana! Out of mana!
Bats are death.
Out of mana!
Hero mode is for heroes!
Finally killed the mini boss.
Out of mana!
--- End quote ---
(Makes note to give the skelebots and bats a raise)
x4000:
--- Quote from: BobTheJanitor on March 24, 2012, 12:09:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: TyberZann on March 24, 2012, 11:28:12 AM ---I would recommend making yourself familiar with all aspects of the planning menu except the encyclopedia as well. There is a lot of information in there and I find myself looking at it quite a bit. Although I'm looking more at the crafting section of the encyclopedia than any other spot.
--- End quote ---
This brings up a good point. I think the crafting recipes should be more front and center. Going planning, encyclopedia, crafting seems a bit roundabout for something that I'm going to bring up every few minutes. Not like it's terrible or anything, just a little out of the way.
--- End quote ---
Someone suggested adding unbound hotkeys for all the major categories of the planning menu, and I think that would really address the bulk of it. To a very large extent, I don't want to have new players getting overwhelmed by too many top-level categories, and I think that crafting is just one too many things at the top level (since there really isn't any reason it belongs outside of the encyclopedia other than frequency of use for some players).
I do still want to do the "shopping lists" thing, and I think that will be easy, though. So in that regard we'd have another way to more quickly get at certain spells you're working towards.
--- Quote from: chemical_art on March 24, 2012, 01:57:55 PM ---In my first experience:
7 deaths (bloody skelebots trapping me)
Out of mana! Out of mana! Out of mana!
Bats are death.
Out of mana!
Hero mode is for heroes!
Finally killed the mini boss.
Out of mana!
--- End quote ---
If you're getting lots of out of mana messages, then probably you're playing with a character with very low mana; you can always choose characters with more mana, and if you still have trouble you can even use upgrade stones to get more mana. But in general this is about precision firing not spraying the room with shots, so unless your character has just super low mana or you're holding down the fire button a lot, there's no reason to be getting that popup a huge amount.
Anyhow, hope the experience was fun, despite the deaths and mana troubles.
chemical_art:
The reason I put the out of mana spells was because of how quickly it occurs. Using ball lightning or throwing rocks I throw 3 or 4 shots then empty, and a few enemies take that amount or less but even in the intro the second enemy type I saw (skelebots) took 6 or 7 each and they came 3 or 5 at a time. I know the fire shots take less mana, but with the fast movements and the very short range and the extreme flinging after being hurt (in addition to so quickly become trapped) made it useless to me.
I'm not complaining, per se, since I choose hero difficutly. But I was surprised at the shock of how quickly things scaled up. I was expecting to fight them to have more space to dodge, but it was super quick melee fighting and since it was the intro I had no choice but to slog through it (because I was too stubborn to switch).
We'll see. I very quickly glanced at a nearby area after finding the settlement, and now that I can move and not bring a musket to a knife fight it feels more complex and enjoyable.
Donfish:
--- Quote from: chemical_art on March 24, 2012, 08:51:39 AM ---Since you are almost finished, I'm giving the game a whirl.
What would ensure an enjoyable start?
--- End quote ---
Wait, when you enter an area you are invulnerable so use that to look around and get your bearings.
Pause is your friend, you can hover over enemies and see their resistances and weaknesses and you can change enchants
so when you fall in that pool of acid water, pause, put on your gills and you're good to go.
Die, die a lot, use death to learn the mechanics and don't waste upgrade stones till you get the mechanics of the game down,
used upgrades don't carry over at death. heck once you get comfortable with the game you can start a new world if you want and make that the real game.
Learn what your spells do, there are definite combinations that work better in certain areas than others.
Learn to read the map at the bottom, when you do this you can actually have the knowledge of where you are going and what you are going to do there.
Every color and every line means something, hover over each section for an explanation also check the wiki section "What are all these maps for?".
There are a lot of things to "get" in this game, at first it seems like a mish-mosh of random things happening but as you learn each aspect of the game
you get those "ahh now that makes sense" moments and what once seemed neigh but impossible becomes possible.
The game sometimes seems cruel but keep at it and it becomes extremely fun and there are tons of little tricks to learn.
x4000:
--- Quote from: chemical_art on March 24, 2012, 07:26:03 PM ---The reason I put the out of mana spells was because of how quickly it occurs. Using ball lightning or throwing rocks I throw 3 or 4 shots then empty, and a few enemies take that amount or less but even in the intro the second enemy type I saw (skelebots) took 6 or 7 each and they came 3 or 5 at a time. I know the fire shots take less mana, but with the fast movements and the very short range and the extreme flinging after being hurt (in addition to so quickly become trapped) made it useless to me.
I'm not complaining, per se, since I choose hero difficutly. But I was surprised at the shock of how quickly things scaled up. I was expecting to fight them to have more space to dodge, but it was super quick melee fighting and since it was the intro I had no choice but to slog through it (because I was too stubborn to switch).
--- End quote ---
What those parts of the intro mission are trying to teach you is the tactics of fighting in caves: there's no speed to melee combat with most of those enemy types; rather, what you want to do is use wood platforms to stay out of their way and dance around above them, firing death from above. Sometimes you can't get an angle of fire on the enemies, and you need a wooden platform then, too.
I should add this to the "fast facts" section at the very least, but in the tutorial that's something I was hoping most people would figure out through experimentation and practice rather than my telling them. You're taught how to use wood platforms to get higher, and when you jump down into a mob of skelebots you're quickly taught that that's death, so it's kind of hoping you'll put the two of them together.
Don't take that as a slam on you -- everybody sees things in a different way, and in the much-lauded Megaman X intro level that teaches you wall sliding in a clever oblique way such as this, I got permanently stuck. So it's not like it's something related to intelligence or even experience with gaming, it's just sometimes a given person makes a connection and others do. That's particularly challenging to deal with during a tutorial phase where people are ideally figuring a lot of it out for themselves, but where they can run into a frustrating situation (like you did) if they miss some vital clue (such as use platforms to stay above/away from enemies, rather than fighting them on their own terms).
--- Quote from: chemical_art on March 24, 2012, 07:26:03 PM ---We'll see. I very quickly glanced at a nearby area after finding the settlement, and now that I can move and not bring a musket to a knife fight it feels more complex and enjoyable.
--- End quote ---
Outdoors you do indeed have more freedom of movement, and your wooden platforms aren't usable there. So you have to employ different tactics, which is sometimes easier, sometimes harder.
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