Author Topic: Ideas for exploration enhancement  (Read 3954 times)

Offline bvchaosinc

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2012, 02:31:21 PM »
I can't think of away to make exploration itself interesting in a situation were your map is always fully defined (which as I understand is a core mechanic of this game) and always available with out penalty or danger.  If you always know the way then it will always be "turn right in 400 yrd" which is very convenient, but never interesting.   

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,560
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2012, 03:59:54 PM »
To add to this conversation: On entry to a building, if I can't see a stash, I will almost always immediately just leave.  I might go one door in if a stair or something looks to cover 5 or more rooms, but otherwise, I'm outta there.

I REALLY, REALLY want nothing to do with wasting MORE time trying to find stashes, secret missions, and the like.  I would expect a lot of other players feel the same way.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,560
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2012, 04:13:00 PM »
I should add to my above comment.  The only reason I enter buildings unless I'm farming spell/building materials at this point are the following reasons:

1) I'm looking for more upgrade stones to cover lemming deaths.
2) I'm trying to hunt down an NPC secret mission.

Otherwise, I've gotten enough enchants that I don't need to churn through 30 more of them to find one I might like, particularly when I can go whack a lieutenant and even those super-enchants don't necessarily improve on what I've already got.  My character on the server has something like 4000 platforms and another 4000 crates, I'm good there.  I've got a few ellusion scrolls to get me out of bugged entrances or wall-sticks or whatnot, so they're solid.

Because of this, exploring is a 'get in/get out' kind of thing, so I can get back to whacking the overlord or moving the missions foward for tiers.  Heck, I usually don't even slow down to kill things unless I'm hurting for hit points or need to for a mission... or they're in my way in a tight corridor.

IE: If I'm looking for a cavern to do some mining, I'll usually doublejump+ride the lightning while doing a storm dash across the entire surface.  I'll take a bit of damage from a fall at the end, hit the next screen, pop a few things for health, and repeat until I get to where I need to be.

If I want a deep, long-run game, I'll turn to AI War or Railroads! or Capitalism II.  What's nice about this game is you can pick it up, and get something reasonable done in 15 minutes as a quickie break or something.  If the game is turned towards heavy exploration and a lot of hidden places, you'll lose that.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Hunam

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 29
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2012, 04:21:53 PM »
To add to this conversation: On entry to a building, if I can't see a stash, I will almost always immediately just leave.  I might go one door in if a stair or something looks to cover 5 or more rooms, but otherwise, I'm outta there.

I REALLY, REALLY want nothing to do with wasting MORE time trying to find stashes, secret missions, and the like.  I would expect a lot of other players feel the same way.

I agree with this. I feel that finding stashes is simply a task that must be done out of necessity but is thankfully very easy to do at the moment.
Prolonging the process would not help create a sense of exploration in my mind.

I will consider the game to have a fun world to explore when I am pulled away from missions, locating gem veins, finding exp containers, etc. and get sidetracked just trying to see what is around the next corner regardless of how this benefits my character.

I see no problem with leaving "clues" or "secret doors" or whatever as long as it is not vital to strengthen my character. Whatever lies at the end of this searching should be game knowledge, unique areas, achievements etc and not something I feel obligated to do unless I am curious.

Oh man, finding scrolls with monster info to go in a monster compendium would be pretty cool.

Or finding little monster hatchlings that you could tame (by just finding them), and then let them wander around your settlement.

Ooo I like this idea, maybe with a spell that let us get a copy of the monster somehow. Similar to how the Shrink spell works. 

King

I also like the idea of collecting....something. Maybe have like a trophy room in a settlement to display the knowledge you have collected about the world or frozen statues of monsters with info?  Regardless simply having a monster compendium with detailed collected info would be fun.

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2012, 07:11:37 PM »
To add to this conversation: On entry to a building, if I can't see a stash, I will almost always immediately just leave.  I might go one door in if a stair or something looks to cover 5 or more rooms, but otherwise, I'm outta there.

I REALLY, REALLY want nothing to do with wasting MORE time trying to find stashes, secret missions, and the like.  I would expect a lot of other players feel the same way.

This is a good point. There has to be a balance between getting your resources fast and allowing for some exploration if you want to do that. Think about GTA3 (the closest model out there to AVWW): you want to be able to go get your weapons quickly, but you also want to have interesting things to explore. I think the system where you get a visual signal that the door leads to something good won't be much slower than the current system. You could even have one signal for resources and one for other interesting things to make it even easier. This signals could be in response to a spell that you activate or just walking by the door. But what you get in return is that you might walk into a boss room on your way to a resource, or you might stumble into something completely unexpected. I think it's worth it.


Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,560
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2012, 07:51:29 PM »
I think the system where you get a visual signal that the door leads to something good won't be much slower than the current system. You could even have one signal for resources and one for other interesting things to make it even easier. This signals could be in response to a spell that you activate or just walking by the door. But what you get in return is that you might walk into a boss room on your way to a resource, or you might stumble into something completely unexpected. I think it's worth it.

I think it's horribly not worth it.  Not knowing that the stash was a maze room before I wasted time heading there.  Tripping on a boss room while exploring with low health and expecting to clean out a few trash mobs.  Having no idea if it's two rooms away, or 8.

Honestly, that kind of 'exploration' with the rest of the game in its current state would just have me hang the game up completely.

I personally would like an 'echo' spell or something that would allow me to see further into buildings, not have them more hidden.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Professor Paul1290

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2012, 12:17:07 AM »
I think any exploration elements added should be in addition to what's already there, not a replacement for something.

Offline Wanderer

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,560
  • If you're not drunk you're doing it wrong.
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2012, 12:32:32 AM »
You know, now that I think about it, some kind of enchant (most likely head based) that would let you see a room deeper or something would be really damn cool... :)  It'd also help to balance off the power by having you remove some other ability... and there's really not a lot of good, general usage items for headwear right now.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline jabrazelle

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2012, 07:18:17 AM »
Regardless simply having a monster compendium with detailed collected info would be fun.

Perhaps the monster compendium could be steadily unlocked and reveal weaknesses and resistances of the monsters in game.  You shouldn't know what monsters are immune to what elements by default, it should be learned as you collect information.  Or maybe you can learn it from killing X many monsters.

Offline tigersfan

  • Arcen Games Contractor
  • Administrator
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,549
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2012, 07:24:33 AM »
I think any exploration elements added should be in addition to what's already there, not a replacement for something.

I agree 100% here.

Offline Hunam

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 29
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2012, 01:03:12 PM »
Regardless simply having a monster compendium with detailed collected info would be fun.

Perhaps the monster compendium could be steadily unlocked and reveal weaknesses and resistances of the monsters in game.  You shouldn't know what monsters are immune to what elements by default, it should be learned as you collect information.  Or maybe you can learn it from killing X many monsters.

While I don't mind this suggestion what I would really enjoy seeing in a compendium would be misc info.  Here are a few quick poor examples of what I mean as I am currently bored.

Picture listed here
Creature: Lightning Esper
Origin: Age of Magic?
Resistance: Air
Info: These floating orbs of energy seem to float about aimlessly on air currents; however, are quite capable of demonstrating basic intelligence in the form of pursing and attacking adventurers with clusters of high speed orbs of electrical energy. They appear as dense clusters of dense electrical charge and are often accompanied with a smell of ozone even when not in sight. They appear in numerous places throughout the world and sometimes travel in groups. There have been reports from lumbermancers in remote areas of large groups of lightning espers massing and forming massive storm cells creating large crater with massive discharges of electricity.

Picture listed here
Creature: Water Esper
Origin: Age of Magic?
Resistance: Water
Info: Like other members of the creatures known as espers, Water espers are magical beings that drift about with some basic level of intelligence and aggression. They appear to be roughly spherical blobs of pulsing water and, from reports of glyphbearers, appear to be very hot to touch. These entities will spew concentrated steam at adventurers causing extensive burns. Interestingly many adventurers have reported water espers vanishing in a pool of water or suddenly forming from a nearby pool. This has led some aquamancers? (dunno what they are called) to speculate that water espers are able to easily shift between forms and that they may play a key role in bringing water to remote locations in the world and thus altering the environment.

The following would be a really simple "peaceful" creature that would just vanish in a dust cloud if players approached with the most basic of animations.

Picture listed here
Creature: Rock Worm
Origin: Age of Magic? In caves
Resistance: Uknown
Info: These small worms are rarely seen in the deeper reaches of our world. They are not aggressive and quickly burrow if approached. From the few specimens captured and studied by technozoologist it seems they consist on a diet that consist solely of rocks. They emit an aura of heat around them after feeding possibly as a result of flatulence. Study from glyphbearers has suggested that within this worms is a compact compartment of magical fire that functions as a unusual stomach. The captured specimens were noted to release more intense heat the longer it was observed eventually resulting in the building catching fire. This, along with occasional reports of large serpentine swaths of land collapsing into tunnels of lava during intense localized earthquakes, has led some to believe that these worms are simply a larval stage of some massive creature that burrows through dense rock, releasing tunnels of magma in its wake. Luckily such reports are rare and the worst outcome of an encounter with one of these worms is a mildly burned thing on your foot.

I really think just having additional depth in the form of misc information about these monsters provides more vibrancy for the world and give me a reason to search these creatures out during exploration. On the other hand, maybe I am the only one that cares about this stuff and am just a profound nerd...

Offline DesiQ

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2012, 04:13:44 AM »
To add to this conversation: On entry to a building, if I can't see a stash, I will almost always immediately just leave.  I might go one door in if a stair or something looks to cover 5 or more rooms, but otherwise, I'm outta there.

I REALLY, REALLY want nothing to do with wasting MORE time trying to find stashes, secret missions, and the like.  I would expect a lot of other players feel the same way.
The same for me, yes. In fact, I wouldn't complain if cruft like destroyed rooms and empty hallways and empty rooms were removed altogether; they may as well not exist already, to all intents and purposes.

It also bothers me that buildings are so large inside. A outbuilding with nine layers of rooms, seven of them being destroyed and inaccessible? I think building interiors should be sized appropriately for the kind of building they're supposed to be (maybe just have Small/Medium/Large building dungeons in the same way you have Surface and Underground dungeons?), since it would mean that you'd be okay with ducking into a storage shed because you know they're only a screen large and usually have some handy stuff.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,086
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
    • View Profile
    • Follow On Google+
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2012, 12:35:55 PM »
To add to this conversation: On entry to a building, if I can't see a stash, I will almost always immediately just leave.  I might go one door in if a stair or something looks to cover 5 or more rooms, but otherwise, I'm outta there.

I REALLY, REALLY want nothing to do with wasting MORE time trying to find stashes, secret missions, and the like.  I would expect a lot of other players feel the same way.
The same for me, yes. In fact, I wouldn't complain if cruft like destroyed rooms and empty hallways and empty rooms were removed altogether; they may as well not exist already, to all intents and purposes.

It also bothers me that buildings are so large inside. A outbuilding with nine layers of rooms, seven of them being destroyed and inaccessible? I think building interiors should be sized appropriately for the kind of building they're supposed to be (maybe just have Small/Medium/Large building dungeons in the same way you have Surface and Underground dungeons?), since it would mean that you'd be okay with ducking into a storage shed because you know they're only a screen large and usually have some handy stuff.

It does work like that actually. But sometimes it works like the Tardis, its bigger on the inside ;)

King
Honorable Gamer on the Interwebs...
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help out: http://tinyurl.com/6ps28
A Paladin's Blog: www.kingisaaclinksr.com
Related Reviews:   
Tidalis: http://wp.me/pQq2J-4Z
A Valley Without Wind: http://wp.me/pQq2J-G5
A Valley Without Wind 2: http://wp.me/pQq2J-1wc

Offline Bluddy

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2012, 03:32:18 PM »
I would like to see stashes and gem vein rooms become more rare so that they really matter. So that if the gem vein is blocked by a boss, you really need to defeat that boss or find a way past the boss -- you can't just rely on finding another gem vein elsewhere.

Here's my idea:

There are only a few gem veins per cave level. So at level 1, there will only be a few gem veins of a certain type across all the chunks. Once those are finished (and again, there aren't many of them), you have to go deeper to farm more gems to level 2. There are only a few at that level as well. Then there are a few at level 3 etc. The same applies to buildings: as you go deeper, the level will go up, and there are only a few stashes per building level.

So how do you find the remaining stashes at the lowest level possible? How do you know which buildings/caves to enter? One option is to greatly reduce the number of buildings/caves. Another option is to have a spell that charges based on kills or some resource that you get whenever you explore anywhere. This spell will show you which building has the nearest access stash in the current chunk, or which cave has the nearest gem vein.

Offline RetroNutcase

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas for exploration enhancement
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2012, 07:51:06 PM »
I've got some thoughts I'd like to share regarding exploration and how to improve it, in an area that specifically needs it: Underwater.

I am loving AVWW so far, but underwater exploration feels like more of a chore than fun because of a major, MAJOR annoyance: You have no platforms/crates that will stay where they are in water! This means any time you go underwater, you have to place new platforms/crates that will eventually float to the surface, and become wasted. This results in underwater exploration being an incredible waste of resources to the point it seems impractical, since early on if you don't have a massive crate/platform stockpile, lo and behold, you'll likely run out underwater and be forced to suicide as you have no way back up!

So, what can be done? In my opinion, the following two items could make underwater adventures a lot more feasible, and a lot less frustrating. They could also be useful for other purposes:

-Steel Platform-
Nearly identical to a Wooden Platform, except it has a considerably higher health value than a Wooden Platform, making it less suspect to destruction by enemies (Or your own attacks). In addition, because they're made of metal, they do not float in water and are ideal for making underwater jumping paths.

-Steel Crate-
See the above, except these are crates made of metal that can take more punishment than normal crates. Also, they sink in water instead of floating, making them ideal for creating underwater stairways.