General Category > A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2

JtP: I must be missing something.

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tigersfan:

--- Quote from: eRe4s3r on April 30, 2012, 11:33:13 AM ---
--- Quote from: tigersfan on April 30, 2012, 10:54:58 AM ---
For starters, where did 40% come from? I just counted, there are at least 10 different mission types in the game currently so JtP can't possibly be 40% of the available mission types. Am I missing something?

--- End quote ---

I was talking about the original anachronism, lava escape, meteor and JTP (by the way, i find it quite funny that lava escape is it's own mission, one of the only things in Trine a huge majority of players hated) and due to how mission seeding works it might even be the only mission type(s) offered. At which point gamers have only 1 choice, to wait the missions out or start/abort them and then wait for new ones to spawn. That is in no way a good idea imo


--- Quote from: keith.lamothe on April 30, 2012, 11:01:26 AM ---
That was my reaction as well.  If we can't have missions that some (or even most, but not pushing it too far) players don't like, then meaningful gameplay variety goes out the window.

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No, every mission has the potential to be challenging and fun while not being grindy and boring/frustrating. Fact is that is not the case for quite a few missions. So instead of thinking how to make sure people don't play them (which is quite funny ;p) maybe missions should be redesigned so that difficulty is variable. Maybe even a 3rd difficulty slider (mission difficulty)

I would even tend to agree that missions need to be challenging but in the end, if you can't make missions difficult any other way but to put a huge chasm with hundreds of enemies between them and the exit or by making both enemies and background black as the night then maybe new elements need to be thought up.

When you say that you are thinking how to make it clear players don't *have* to play missions you are forgetting that they WILL play such mission and WILL lose their character in one. I mean, it's interesting you are thinking about re-balancing upgrade cost to compensate for lost characters and how difficult it is to get a new character "up to level"

The problem is, anyone playing the game for the first time, WILL die in JTP and lava escape missions. You can not expect them to be happy about that. Particularly not if that character had like 500 upgrade stones invested in him.

Well.. lots of text, point = Missions need difficulty settings and be easy on easy.

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But, as long as you don't do something stupid, you won't die in those missions. As long as you don't fall in a giant hole of lava in lava escape missions, you won't die. You won't win the mission, but you won't die. Same with JTP, as long as you don't get yourself surrounded by a dozen bad guys.

Also, the current difficulty levels do affect them. For example, if you turn down the platforming difficulty, the lava does come up more slowly in lava escape missions.

LintMan:

--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---Well.. lots of text, point = Missions need difficulty settings and be easy on easy.
--- End quote ---

But, as long as you don't do something stupid, you won't die in those missions. As long as you don't fall in a giant hole of lava in lava escape missions, you won't die. You won't win the mission, but you won't die. Same with JTP, as long as you don't get yourself surrounded by a dozen bad guys.
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Well, I kinda think that if you're playing on easy, the missions should be, you know... easy.   Rather than just "not fatal".  And for most of the mission types, this is true.  For JtP, "easy" could be:
- puttting ladders on all those super tall outdoor cliffs that you can't place platforms next to so you don't need teleport or major box stacking.
- getting rid of the air-to-air missiles that shoot at RtL users.
- and/or maybe fewer tricky monsters like bats that are fast, elusive, and can be VERY hard to spot at times.

Now, I don't think that every mission type needs to appeal to everyone, or that there can't be more niche ones that don't, but keep a few things in mind:

1 - Missions may be optional, but there is a large opportunity cost wrapped up in them.   When you're trudging through caves and buildings looking for the secret missions because you aren't ready for the next tier yet, only to find one and it's a type that you dislike, it's a real disappointment.   Or similarly if the only main mission available witt the sort of reward you need (ie: magma or welkin gel) is a mission type you really dislike, then you need to wait around for those to expire and hope for better choices - or you can put up with it so you can get on with the game.  All of which makes mission types less optional that people might like.

2 - Early in the game there are a number of mission types that are locked, so choices start out very limited, but then JtP is a fairly early unlock that unlocks even more JtP types, so until the other mission unlocks happen, it feels like there are a WHOLE lot of JtP missions out there.

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