Multiple Player Initial Wave

[Flatline]

Our recent games are set up as:
3 human players vs 2 AI 8.6 Hard (Non-Technologists) 80 system.

Most of our problems we encounter are with the initial wave (It appears at 10 minutes, so not long to prepare and with limited resources), due to having 3 players, the wave if they all go to a single player can be just completely overwhelming. This has forced us on initial set up of the game to always be next to, or at worst case a single player will be 1 system away (Which is hit asap to allow reinforcements to each other). Due to the way we have to set up our home systems, and ofcourse wanting one of our favourite ship types, it can take some time to find a suitable map.. rather boring..

So my questions are:
Any suggestions on dealing with this initial wave ?
Would it be possible to add an option to select not only your start position, but also your bonus ship type ?

And a side question:
When we play the "X" map and quite often we start in the bottom left of the "X" the AI home systems have almost always been in the exact same location.. making it rather predictable. Is there a reason for this ?

[Orelius]

1) The best way to survive any wave is to, well, build up forces.  There's not much that I can say on the matter. Build tractor turrets on wormholes, set up forcefields, all that fun stuff.  Be sure to grab the mark II's of fighters, bombers, and your bonus ship.  I find frigates to be not worth the unlock.

2) Nope.

3) The reason why the AI homeworlds are in the same location is likely because you're using the same map seed every time, essentially playing the same map over and over again.

[chemical_art]

You really have to step up your game to counter that first wave.

I would imagine the best way to do this is practice: Figure out what works to defeat large enemies and what doesn't. For your rough game, you would practice on single player repulsing a 9.0 or even 9.3 (actually, do 9.3. If you counter that consistently, you can maybe handle 3 8.6 waves)


I have been subject to the blunt force for 3 or more waves. It's not easy, but doable. I would recommend waiting to build anything more then fighters until that first wave warning appears so that way you have a chache of resources. Then, when the wave warning appears, spend all your money building defenses just to counter that one wave. If the enemy is giving you more then your fair share of attention (especially ALL of the attention) then have your friends drop resources for you to build. Optimally, you have at least a MK I cap (I and II is best) of fighters before the 7 minute mark.

What and how you build your defense fleet and turrets is paramount. I would firstly recommend at least MK II gravity's. They will buy precious time and are as effective against 10 AI waves as 1. Space them between the home station and wormholes. All other turrets really must be built based on need: If lots of fighters: MLRS. Bombers? Lasers and missiles. Frigates? Basic turrets. Etc, etc.

EDIT: When the wave warnings pop up, it is also time to start building defense shields. One extra shield per wave is a decent rule. So if you have 3 waves incoming, you build 3 extra shields to defend the home.

It is important to have some MK I engineers at your home helping build as well so you can build quickly. If you go broke before you build at least 50 turrets then your friends need to help more.


EDIT: 8.6? That is meant to be rough from the start. Good luck!
Summary:

1. It's already hard, good luck!
2. Gravity turrets
3. Fighter caps, I and II
4. Turrets built only once warning arrives to maximize your use
5. Friends give resources in proportion to wave distribution. All the waves on one player? That one player gets most of the resources.
6. If you want to learn to beat 3 8.6's consistently and deceively using single player, take a few spins of countering the first wave of a 9.3. For extra credit, do it with 2x waves.

[Flatline]

Nevermind about the "Would it be possible to add an option to select not only your start position, but also your bonus ship type ?"
Just seen http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=175
Which is status: Considering
Hopefully that gets impliemented soon.

About the inital wave..
It doesn't happen every game, but when it does, it can be hard to withstand solo (I have done it, was just a very close call), if we aren't able to reinforce each other, which is rather a restriction on starting positions.

Normally, 1 player gets gravity turrets, another gets MKII force fields, we then position both on all players home system. Then slowly build ships till as Chemical_art stated, we discover who is getting the hit(s), then adapt as necessary.

It's all just rather a restriction at the start, with positioning of home systems and bonus ship types, was rather annoying me. Hopefully at least the bonus ship type will change. Seems like we can't do much more at start, then we do, unless there are any other suggestions?.

oh.. and that is different seeds of the "X" map..

[zebramatt]

The design ethos behind tying starting position and ship type together is to force you to try different strategies.

So if you want to start near one another you can but you'll have to bite the bullet on ship types; or if you want to go for your strongest types then you'll compromise starting location. Either way, it's presenting interesting challenges to solve!

[Flatline]

Right... because forcing people into different strategies, is better than allowing them to choose a strategy.

Started a new 3 player game last night 8.6's again, looks like we will have to turn more options on or bump up A! again. Kinda strolling through it with easy again..

[Philo]

You guys are strolling through 8.6? Any minor factions or anything?

[Flatline]

You guys are strolling through 8.6? Any minor factions or anything?

Yeah.
2x AI 8.6 Hard Non-Technologist, 80 system, Maze C map
Ships complex, all on except Core Shield Generators

Minor factions turned on:
Human Colony Rebellion
Human Resistance Fighters
Broken Golems (3-Hard)
Zenith Dyson Sphere
Zenith Traders
Spirecraft (2-Moderate)

AI Modifiers
Schizophrenic

No AI Plots turned on.

Once we have access to martyrs, the game just becomes far too easy. All Cross Planet attacks and Warp Gate attacks are just destroyed by a martyr over the wormhole, and planet with large ship numbers.. just sent in a martyr.
We have 2 golems now. Artillary which we use to 4 shot any AI-Eyes (Takes 2 minutes to kill it) and any high health targets, Armoured golem just used as general killing machine. We've used a few empty transport ships to distract the AI ships away from the wormhole, before sending in golems, or to gather up AI ship to wormholes for matry destruction.
The player assigned to do martyrs has a 1,322% kill to loss.. 53,196 kills vs  4021 loss.... 43,941 kills by martyrs... and thats in about 5 hours

[Philo]

Seems like you guys are doing quite well then. Although I have to say, playing any seeds where every planet only has maximum 2 wormholes (like maze) is really much easier than playing simple or realistic map seeds.

But if you like the maze maps then just play em and make it harder otherwise if you really need to. Spirecraft Hard, and those annoying little neinzul buggers with core generators also should make it a little more harder. If you really want to make it harder enable hybrids and advanced hybrids.
You might want to try going at the story also at the same time you're playing through the normal conquest. 3x exogalactic waves.

[Lancefighter]

For extra fun, make sure you have hybrids enabled. Honestly I can more or less ignore any non-hybrid attack at this point..

(and i do, because i have wave warnings as off )