Author Topic: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense  (Read 5320 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2012, 06:09:43 PM »
One other problem with beachheading is wormhole guardposts.  You have to build off the wormhole, out of range of those turrets, and that can be problematic.  If you can kill the wormhole guardposts you probably aren't looking at a significant enough threat to beachhead anyway.
But why do you have to care about the wormhole guardposts?  Their dps is pretty negligible, right?
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2012, 06:19:14 PM »
Yeah. I usually just make my K-Raid-Post right on top of them. Being able to ship units back and forth safely through the wormhole is more valuable than distance from WHGPs, IMHO.

For redeploying turrets, I'd suggest using a swallower-type unit. If it's possible. Grab turrets, move the unit, drop turrets at desired location. To balance it, make that transport unit lose health with a speed proportional to the number (multiplied by mk level or energy need?) of the turrets inside it. That way, the unit can't just drag a full load of turrets into the AIHW; but it can still be used to move them from one world to another. Or just from one position within one world to some more tactically convenient location.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2012, 06:48:35 PM »
Yea, I was thinking of something like a "turret transport" that would put the turret back in the same relative position as when it "loaded" (it would need to be able to load from X distance away)
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2012, 07:34:09 PM »
One other problem with beachheading is wormhole guardposts.  You have to build off the wormhole, out of range of those turrets, and that can be problematic.  If you can kill the wormhole guardposts you probably aren't looking at a significant enough threat to beachhead anyway.
But why do you have to care about the wormhole guardposts?  Their dps is pretty negligible, right?

Yes, but anything above 0 dps is enough to make something ineligible for repair or assist for a good chunk of time.

Offline Martyn van Buren

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2012, 07:39:50 PM »
I'm very happy with turrets as is; it makes sense to me that there's a significant commitment to placing them.  And I like that placing them kind of commits you to a particular defensive line and slows down the game --- I feel like one of the big high-level challenges in AI War is overcoming the urge to get into trench warfare where the AI can just wear you down.  Adding features that make it easier to keep your momentum seems like it would kind of move something that really should be the player's responsibility to the game.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2012, 07:41:57 PM »
One other problem with beachheading is wormhole guardposts.  You have to build off the wormhole, out of range of those turrets, and that can be problematic.  If you can kill the wormhole guardposts you probably aren't looking at a significant enough threat to beachhead anyway.
But why do you have to care about the wormhole guardposts?  Their dps is pretty negligible, right?

Because you can't heal something that's taking fire.
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2012, 08:43:34 PM »
I never saw the point in healing anything during K-Raids. Either you have enough firepower to keep the zombies at bay, or you don't. Either you kill them where they pop up, or they will overrun your perimeter eventually. Why keep flimsy engineers around that will probably just get shot by Ion Cannons?

All you need is Riot Starship, and more Riot Starship.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2012, 08:52:32 PM »
I never saw the point in healing anything during K-Raids. Either you have enough firepower to keep the zombies at bay, or you don't. Either you kill them where they pop up, or they will overrun your perimeter eventually. Why keep flimsy engineers around that will probably just get shot by Ion Cannons?

All you need is Riot Starship, and more Riot Starship.

Heh, anyplace I K-Raid is almost always fully neutered, so no Ion Cannons.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2012, 09:03:37 PM »
I never saw the point in healing anything during K-Raids. Either you have enough firepower to keep the zombies at bay, or you don't. Either you kill them where they pop up, or they will overrun your perimeter eventually. Why keep flimsy engineers around that will probably just get shot by Ion Cannons?

All you need is Riot Starship, and more Riot Starship.

It's not quite that "it works or it doesn't", but admittedly the times where an offensive beachhead would be worth it are not all common.
Raid starships can get you far, but sometimes even their raiding awesomeness is not enough.

And I would only use the flismy, mobile engineers for the initial setup, with enough of an escort to "distract" the ion cannons.
Once I got that fortress or mobile repair station, the mobile engineers become mostly expendable.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2012, 09:56:11 PM »
For the 4000 Knowledge the MRS sets me back, I can get Raid SSs mkII! And Riot mkIIs! Or enough turrets to plaster my defensive lines with for all my roaming patrols to come join the Raid! And fortresses? Expensive! I'd rather just use my fleet, which I can move about and re-use; rather than to have to scrap it afterwards.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2012, 10:08:59 PM »
For the 4000 Knowledge the MRS sets me back

Oh yea, I forgot about their now crazy cost.

I would suggest a reduction in that cost. Mantis?

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2012, 10:22:51 PM »
MRS or the Mobile Builder?

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2012, 10:35:29 PM »
Nah, their cost is fine. If anything, I'd even increase it.

Or lower it, but reduce their power and add an mkII version with faster regeneration speed (or more HP/armour. Or cloaking. Or faster setup speed. Or anything, really.)

In any case, as is, their cost definitely shouldn't be lower; seeing as they present a very unique utility to the fleet, and a force multiplier well worth the 4000K.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2012, 01:11:16 AM »
I see no need to use mrs's since engineers can accomplish the same goal. Granted, not as effectively, but MRS's are certainly no force multiplyer.

Now if they could repair during combat...otherwise, I could never justify them when I could just use current engineers, or save the points to get MK III engineers, which are 5x more useful then MRS.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Knowledge Spending: Offense vs. Defense
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2012, 02:33:46 AM »
Hmmm, Khan, you appear quite correct.  I've been overbuilding badly trying to be able to K-Raid AND move my fleet around at the same time.  Park your fleet almost on top of the Cmd Station and just let 'er rip.  Hrm.  Interesting.

A quickie FF for protection, a 15 stack of Engi IIs for long haul repairs, and a grav/tachyon (for me) to counter blades/Space Planes.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 02:35:54 AM by GUDare »
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