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AI War / Re: Taunt/trigger thread for new expansion
« on: May 17, 2013, 12:25:01 PM »
KWATZ
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2
Skyward Collapse / Re: Rock Paper Collapse
« on: May 14, 2013, 11:12:19 PM »
I don't know if I could read something like that, but a navelgazing retrospective on the game and it's twists and turns would be fun to read.
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Skyward Collapse / Re: Rock Paper Collapse
« on: May 14, 2013, 09:48:48 PM »
To Keith and Chris: your responses to this thread are a big reason why the community you have continues to exist. You're clearly willing to put effort into responding to even the most taxing of inquiries, and are both open and willing to filter through criticism to see what you're able to use.
I can also see sometimes the strain of wanting to implement some of the vague changes the "armchair developers" want, and bending over backwards to explain why it's not accessible at present... or ever.
For what it's worth, I think you're on the right track as a developer. Even when I look at games that I don't necessarily love the way I do AI War, I know the level of dedication that Arcen has to their games, means that games aren't just products that are pushed out, milked, cataloged, discarded, but treated as projects in a continual state of improvement. But I've also seen other companies I really like rise and fall, and I don't want the same to happen to you guys. I think you know where I'm coming from.
For some games, like Valley 1 and 2, I sometimes hope they will, over time, see similar growth to AI War. AI War is almost totally unrecognizable as a game from its inception, it's had a hell of a journey so far. The big names in the Arcen catalog have an arc that you don't see from big industry, or the usual indie darlings.
This is a pretty difficult/impossible thing to communicate to others, it's something that gathers over time. Phil Fish's method was to keep working on Fez until he thought it was perfect, and he got a lot of flak over that... some of it deserved. So clearly you can't have everything you want.
To conclude, my summary post from RPS wasn't a "fix this now" list, but a service that I, a community member and infrequent contributer, but longtime supporter, am trying to bring some outside commentary. I think you guys are receiving it in just the right way.
I can also see sometimes the strain of wanting to implement some of the vague changes the "armchair developers" want, and bending over backwards to explain why it's not accessible at present... or ever.
For what it's worth, I think you're on the right track as a developer. Even when I look at games that I don't necessarily love the way I do AI War, I know the level of dedication that Arcen has to their games, means that games aren't just products that are pushed out, milked, cataloged, discarded, but treated as projects in a continual state of improvement. But I've also seen other companies I really like rise and fall, and I don't want the same to happen to you guys. I think you know where I'm coming from.
For some games, like Valley 1 and 2, I sometimes hope they will, over time, see similar growth to AI War. AI War is almost totally unrecognizable as a game from its inception, it's had a hell of a journey so far. The big names in the Arcen catalog have an arc that you don't see from big industry, or the usual indie darlings.
This is a pretty difficult/impossible thing to communicate to others, it's something that gathers over time. Phil Fish's method was to keep working on Fez until he thought it was perfect, and he got a lot of flak over that... some of it deserved. So clearly you can't have everything you want.
To conclude, my summary post from RPS wasn't a "fix this now" list, but a service that I, a community member and infrequent contributer, but longtime supporter, am trying to bring some outside commentary. I think you guys are receiving it in just the right way.
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Skyward Collapse / Re: Rock Paper Collapse
« on: May 14, 2013, 05:33:26 PM »
I can understand why Chris might not want to read negative comments, dude's got a game to make and doesn't want to lose steam for no good reason.
I can understand why some here will dismiss the comments as trolling, but I still feel that some of them, brutal though they may be, are legitimate criticisms of what they're seeing so far, and potentially represent typical customer responses. It would be as big a mistake to dismiss them as it would be to be too influenced by them.
Some of the RPS comments reflect how I've felt myself upon viewing the trailer. I think they are legit complaints and concerns. I've paraphrased/compiled them here:
I can understand why some here will dismiss the comments as trolling, but I still feel that some of them, brutal though they may be, are legitimate criticisms of what they're seeing so far, and potentially represent typical customer responses. It would be as big a mistake to dismiss them as it would be to be too influenced by them.
Some of the RPS comments reflect how I've felt myself upon viewing the trailer. I think they are legit complaints and concerns. I've paraphrased/compiled them here:
- "Soon as I saw the combat my heart sank." "...Monty Python." This is due to the lack of unit animation, and weird "flying off the board" death. The units, as nice as the individual sprites may look, have a lifeless and 2-dimensional look. I (doctorfrog) literally laughed out loud when I saw the end of the trailer, secretly hoping it was just alpha footage. The look is of unintentional hilarity, more sad than endearing.
- "...the only things that looked wrong to me were the lack of animation (and the unit death effect) and one GUI window I saw there (gold border, black inside?)" Outside of AI War, there is generally something ugly about the UI of most other Arcen games. It can be hard to pin down what this is, but overall the UI's feel bulky and blurry, partly due to font choice and style (cartoonish with a thick outline) and partly due to garish color styling. I remember when x4 started putting in vividly bright planets in the background of AI War, it looked terrible, until enough folks complained to have a fader put in. My advice is to err on the side of blandness when it comes to UI elements and backgrounds, and leave the brashness to individual units on the map. You don't have to empty the crayon box on every inch of the screen, it just looks messy.
- "I hate — HATE — the font in all Arcen games. It’s the #1 thing that turns me off of their otherwise generally very interesting ideas, gameplay wise." See my previous comment. I feel like x4 may be investing too much color, texture, and personality in GUI elements, and a blander, less obvious UI is a worthwhile pursuit.
- "My enthusiasm for ArcEn has waned a bit. But another AI War expansion sounds about right. I really, really enjoyed the Ancient Shadow one." It would be a mistake for Arcen to think of itself as a one-hit-wonder. But undeniably, AI War is its best idea, and its best game.
- "I’m quite fond of AVWW and AI War (though admittedly rather more in a ‘these have really neat ideas’ way than actually being remotely competent at them)..." AI War was lightning in a bottle, capturing a great, revolutionary idea and creating a complex, fun game. The rest of the catalog seems to have tried other great twists in ideas, but somehow fail to capture that first shot of magic. What does this mean? Are the games too ambitiously different, "too interesting," and not enough fun? Do they just need enough developer love and consumer patience (and supplemental funding) to reach maturity? Is Arcen truly playing to its strengths? It's so hard to say; this would keep me awake nights.
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AI War / Re: Does Energy still matter?
« on: May 13, 2013, 12:29:19 PM »
Just adding to the dogpile, I like that not everything matters, all the time. As in, "Energy, pah!" Then, an hour or so down the line, "Oh crap, energy!"
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AI War / Re: Gearing up for the next AIW expansion: "Vengeance of the Machine"
« on: May 01, 2013, 08:17:25 PM »
This isn't exactly a gameplay enhancement per se, but holy mackerel it would be nice to pick some more player colors in the game.
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=5084
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=5084
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Off Topic / Re: Sanity line drawn here; Enter on your own risk! Unicorn.
« on: May 01, 2013, 01:51:52 AM »
I can't start laughing. "Lol so random" humor kinda petered out for me circa 2003 Adult Swim.
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Skyward Collapse / Re: Details on multiplayer
« on: April 27, 2013, 01:14:37 PM »The Master mostly had to be added because of the addition of Edicts, which were a player idea (and an awesome one). Who gives edicts to the creator? Has to be someone higher up. And actually that made for a more interesting story anyhow. You're upper-middle management, heh.
I like the idea of being a middle-management diety (of all the universes, I get the one with the quibbling minor gods and the filthy humans).
Here's an alternative if you like: you're still top dog, but you're dying. You're wearing out. You've made and run the universe, and your will is draining, there's just nothing left. You don't have much time, so this is your final shot at a legacy, a self-sustaining seed of life that may someday populate the stars or whatever.
This explains why you'd have very little problem pitting humanity against each other in endless war; you have no choice since there will be no stabilizing force after you're gone.
How does it explain the edicts? Well, your mind is slipping, fracturing. You no longer have complete control over your own will. In fact, you suspect that some of these gods have split off from you yourself and are battering at the gates of your consciousness... etc.
So maybe that's a bit bleak, just spitballin'.
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AI War / Re: Steam keys for Ancient Shadows
« on: April 22, 2013, 02:36:47 PM »
I'm glad you did this. It's not something I personally need, since AS and all other expansion packs run through the AI War executable (so there is literally nothing keeping you from using the expansion with Steam), but for a certain kind of person who just has to see all their games show up in Steam, you've taken steps to satisfy them. That's just a good idea.
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Skyward Collapse / Re: Details on multiplayer
« on: April 13, 2013, 08:44:02 PM »
One thing you can do with the slow player in multi is have a minigame the others can play on the side, like a celestial game of pong or volleyball going on in the background. (Or a limited version of Tidalis.) Something not so busy as to be distracting or complex that would require too much dev time.
The other thing I suppose you could do is have a "foot tapping" button that the players could tick that would give a not-too-annoying auditory cue that only can occur once per second, but simultaneously communicate boredom and frustration, and also give players a sense that they can do something other than wait. It could also be a subtle visual effect, such as clouds gathering over territory, or the screen subtly glowing red.
Ripe for player abuse? Oh my, yes.
The other thing I suppose you could do is have a "foot tapping" button that the players could tick that would give a not-too-annoying auditory cue that only can occur once per second, but simultaneously communicate boredom and frustration, and also give players a sense that they can do something other than wait. It could also be a subtle visual effect, such as clouds gathering over territory, or the screen subtly glowing red.
Ripe for player abuse? Oh my, yes.
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Off Topic / Re: The 2 new games from Arcen
« on: April 11, 2013, 10:23:50 PM »
For my two cents:
* Indeed it would be a mistake to introduce a MOO/Civ style 4X at this time, six months ago would have been a better time. In my mind, the bulk of the audience interested in a 4X have had their fill with the one major indie effort that has come out (forgot the name and TBH it didn't look all that great), and those that aren't will soon be with StarDrive. Fortunately, Arcen doesn't seem to be proposing anything of the sort.
* Arcen should not stop creating games that Arcen likes to make and genuinely likes to play.
* Arcen should definitely look beyond its own forums for input on what games will sell.
Now, where option three can actually be found, I'm not sure, but it shouldn't end with Reddit. I don't think this is something you can go out and find, "hey folks, what do you want from us?" You kind of have to play the game that you feel you want to play, but also the kind of game that you know just isn't out there.
Then you have to get lucky, hitting just the right sweet spot in the greater indie game consumer market, and/or catching the ear of the major talking heads of the indie circuit. That's a hard target to reach, and again, it's almost completely up to luck and just an amazing amount of standout talent. IMO, the golden god of good luck meeting genuinely good design, meeting an amazing design aesthetic is the one man show of Blendo games. Chung's best stuff is on Humble Bundle right now, and his strong catalog stands to earn him enough money to finish his awesome vision for Quadrilateral Cowboy... and then some. And honestly, his stuff is so good, so weird, so inspired, he deserves every penny.
A good example of Arcen just BARELY missing the mark would be Shattered Haven. I've seen lots of opinions about it, and many of them are like this: "This looks like the strategy roguelike zombie scavenger open world game I have been craving for! But it's a puzzle game and it's ok. Well, the search goes on."
I felt that way myself. There's a half-busted, survival, ASCII flavored roguelike called Cataclysm, and visually, SH looked like everything Cataclysm wanted to be, but wasn't.
Shattered Haven is a good game, but it's not enough to make a good game. You almost have to come up with a masterpiece that no one has ever seen before, or fulfil a need that just the right group has been slavering for.
One thing that I think shows the Arcen operation is moving the right direction is: smaller, cheaper games, shorter turnaround. They definitely have heart, they have the will and energy to put out a solid game, and the experience and talent to boot. But it seems like what Arcen may be lacking (we're in opinion territory here) is some genuine inspiration and the knack for spotting a real demand in the indie megagenre.
yep, not a word of this is really helpful.
except for this:
Arcen should make games that Arcen loves to make and really wants to play. And also make sure they know what audience with money will want that sort of game.
* Indeed it would be a mistake to introduce a MOO/Civ style 4X at this time, six months ago would have been a better time. In my mind, the bulk of the audience interested in a 4X have had their fill with the one major indie effort that has come out (forgot the name and TBH it didn't look all that great), and those that aren't will soon be with StarDrive. Fortunately, Arcen doesn't seem to be proposing anything of the sort.
* Arcen should not stop creating games that Arcen likes to make and genuinely likes to play.
* Arcen should definitely look beyond its own forums for input on what games will sell.
Now, where option three can actually be found, I'm not sure, but it shouldn't end with Reddit. I don't think this is something you can go out and find, "hey folks, what do you want from us?" You kind of have to play the game that you feel you want to play, but also the kind of game that you know just isn't out there.
Then you have to get lucky, hitting just the right sweet spot in the greater indie game consumer market, and/or catching the ear of the major talking heads of the indie circuit. That's a hard target to reach, and again, it's almost completely up to luck and just an amazing amount of standout talent. IMO, the golden god of good luck meeting genuinely good design, meeting an amazing design aesthetic is the one man show of Blendo games. Chung's best stuff is on Humble Bundle right now, and his strong catalog stands to earn him enough money to finish his awesome vision for Quadrilateral Cowboy... and then some. And honestly, his stuff is so good, so weird, so inspired, he deserves every penny.
A good example of Arcen just BARELY missing the mark would be Shattered Haven. I've seen lots of opinions about it, and many of them are like this: "This looks like the strategy roguelike zombie scavenger open world game I have been craving for! But it's a puzzle game and it's ok. Well, the search goes on."
I felt that way myself. There's a half-busted, survival, ASCII flavored roguelike called Cataclysm, and visually, SH looked like everything Cataclysm wanted to be, but wasn't.
Shattered Haven is a good game, but it's not enough to make a good game. You almost have to come up with a masterpiece that no one has ever seen before, or fulfil a need that just the right group has been slavering for.
One thing that I think shows the Arcen operation is moving the right direction is: smaller, cheaper games, shorter turnaround. They definitely have heart, they have the will and energy to put out a solid game, and the experience and talent to boot. But it seems like what Arcen may be lacking (we're in opinion territory here) is some genuine inspiration and the knack for spotting a real demand in the indie megagenre.
yep, not a word of this is really helpful.
except for this:
Arcen should make games that Arcen loves to make and really wants to play. And also make sure they know what audience with money will want that sort of game.
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Off Topic / Re: TOME 1.0! - and other Roguelikes.
« on: April 09, 2013, 02:29:22 AM »
One does not simply Video Games.
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Off Topic / Re: TOME 1.0! - and other Roguelikes.
« on: April 07, 2013, 02:22:29 AM »
Yeah, same here. Aside from the new school of very graphical roguelikes (Dredmor for example), most roguelikes I've played have reserved the vi-keys for movement, usually also allowing movement with the arrow keys for noobs, and keypad movement for the new faithful.
Myself, I didn't start using vi-keys until I absolutely had to, when I bought a netbook in 2009 and became enchanted with the idea of playing Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup on it (see attachment).
Like I said before, it took about a week on/off before I got used to it, and as the image indicates, I used a reference card to help out. It took the mental image of HJKLYUBN as the shape of a rose to drive it home, with the up/down/left/right forming the stem, and the diagonals forming the petals in my mind.
Totally optional, sure, but I'm the type of dude who still uses keyboard shortcuts in any application that allows it.
Thanks for the VI-Key RPG link mrhanman, I may as well learn to use the editor if I have the opportunity.
Myself, I didn't start using vi-keys until I absolutely had to, when I bought a netbook in 2009 and became enchanted with the idea of playing Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup on it (see attachment).
Like I said before, it took about a week on/off before I got used to it, and as the image indicates, I used a reference card to help out. It took the mental image of HJKLYUBN as the shape of a rose to drive it home, with the up/down/left/right forming the stem, and the diagonals forming the petals in my mind.
Totally optional, sure, but I'm the type of dude who still uses keyboard shortcuts in any application that allows it.
Thanks for the VI-Key RPG link mrhanman, I may as well learn to use the editor if I have the opportunity.
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Off Topic / Re: TOME 1.0! - and other Roguelikes.
« on: April 06, 2013, 11:02:02 AM »
Ah, I see. I've gotten into the habit of skipping the first third of Let's Play and trailer videos, since they usually take some time to get to the interesting bits. My fault there!
If I remember correctly, DoomRL doesn't come with vi-key bindings out of the box, so you'd have to config those in. I am using an Apple wireless keyboard myself, and don't use a numpad at all, and play all roguelikes with the vi-keys. It took about a week to get used to, but it was worth it, since I don't have to move around as much to get to all the utility keys that roguelikes are so famous for. And you can play any roguelike on any laptop! Of course, you should stick with the setup you like best, I'm just saying don't be put off by the initial weirdness of using HJKLYUBN for movement.
As for safe movement, DoomRL should have a feature that allows you to move indefinitely in a direction, stopping when an enemy is spotted.
If I remember correctly, DoomRL doesn't come with vi-key bindings out of the box, so you'd have to config those in. I am using an Apple wireless keyboard myself, and don't use a numpad at all, and play all roguelikes with the vi-keys. It took about a week to get used to, but it was worth it, since I don't have to move around as much to get to all the utility keys that roguelikes are so famous for. And you can play any roguelike on any laptop! Of course, you should stick with the setup you like best, I'm just saying don't be put off by the initial weirdness of using HJKLYUBN for movement.
As for safe movement, DoomRL should have a feature that allows you to move indefinitely in a direction, stopping when an enemy is spotted.
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Off Topic / Re: TOME 1.0! - and other Roguelikes.
« on: April 06, 2013, 03:40:27 AM »Quote from: mrhanmanAnyone know of any good Android roguelikes?I've searched and searched, but most of them are either plain horrible, or incredibly obtuse. I'd like something similar to DoomRL for Android. A lightweight, coffee-break roguelike.
Speaking of Doom: The Roguelike (DoomRL), I've made a few gameplay videos, if people are curious. Episode 2: Chaingunner
I skipped ahead about 6 minutes, watched it for five, and found it pretty enjoyable, thanks. Really makes me want to pick this up... after I'm done with Brogue.
I am probably alone in this, but watching this game played via a mouse is somewhat vexing. I cut my teeth on Nethack with the numpad, then HJKLYUBN and can't do otherwise to this day. So much more work!