1
AI War / Taunt/trigger thread for new expansion
« on: May 09, 2013, 07:58:14 PM »
You know what to do.
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2
Skyward Collapse LPs/AARs / [alpha feedback] Cyborg review
« on: May 04, 2013, 01:48:58 PM »
Well then. Three hours and three games later, my thoughts.
Things that are fun:
When combat conflicts occur.
Floating text showing good things are happening
When gods and godly things appear.
Creating hubs
Things that are not fun:
Dependency trees. So the woodcutter (like everyone else, I was looking for the word woodcutter which doesn't exist), leads to second row buildings, leads to third row buildings. Except that each row has specific amounts for one building in the third row. And some of them have requirements on how far away from a town hall. Kind of irritating, especially when at the end of the game I have a ton of resource tiles and looks like my barracks are not producing for unknown reasons. I also think that having to build butchers around every barracks, along with a blacksmith, and every other dependency is kind of tedious. It would be more fun if this dependency tree was clearer through a resource sidebar that is always on, graphics on the board itself showing an incomplete barracks, or what's going on because by the time I got a barracks to do anything, crime already overran the place, and I lost it.
Losing to bandits and not being able to get the buildings back. Is that a bug? Are bandits sort of like a third faction that are using the same buildings and resources to build things or do they get to build things for free?
Not being able to see the net income of all the resources. Actually, resource management in general is the great challenge so far because you can't tell how much you need, incoming and outgoing, and why certain buildings are sitting idle when you know you just built 10 ranches five turns ago.
Chapman pathing is not clear. There is a range to them, but I'm not sure what that range is. I have seen them go wandering across the map, which is probably a defect. Same question for the trader.
Not being able to play a certain way because I'm not high enough level, so the buildings are not unlocked. I think unlocks are okay, but not if they prevent you from playing the game.
Completing the game gives you a score, but there's no way to judge whether it's good or bad. I think I played a fairly terrible 40 turn game last night, got 800,000 points… played a much better game this morning, got maybe 80,000? Last night I found a point of stasis between the two factions and just ended my turn repeatedly, which allowed me to win the game without any difficulty, all while I seem to be getting points hand over fist. It was awesome, but clearly an exploit.
Need an interface button for the menu.
Things that are fun:
When combat conflicts occur.
Floating text showing good things are happening
When gods and godly things appear.
Creating hubs
Things that are not fun:
Dependency trees. So the woodcutter (like everyone else, I was looking for the word woodcutter which doesn't exist), leads to second row buildings, leads to third row buildings. Except that each row has specific amounts for one building in the third row. And some of them have requirements on how far away from a town hall. Kind of irritating, especially when at the end of the game I have a ton of resource tiles and looks like my barracks are not producing for unknown reasons. I also think that having to build butchers around every barracks, along with a blacksmith, and every other dependency is kind of tedious. It would be more fun if this dependency tree was clearer through a resource sidebar that is always on, graphics on the board itself showing an incomplete barracks, or what's going on because by the time I got a barracks to do anything, crime already overran the place, and I lost it.
Losing to bandits and not being able to get the buildings back. Is that a bug? Are bandits sort of like a third faction that are using the same buildings and resources to build things or do they get to build things for free?
Not being able to see the net income of all the resources. Actually, resource management in general is the great challenge so far because you can't tell how much you need, incoming and outgoing, and why certain buildings are sitting idle when you know you just built 10 ranches five turns ago.
Chapman pathing is not clear. There is a range to them, but I'm not sure what that range is. I have seen them go wandering across the map, which is probably a defect. Same question for the trader.
Not being able to play a certain way because I'm not high enough level, so the buildings are not unlocked. I think unlocks are okay, but not if they prevent you from playing the game.
Completing the game gives you a score, but there's no way to judge whether it's good or bad. I think I played a fairly terrible 40 turn game last night, got 800,000 points… played a much better game this morning, got maybe 80,000? Last night I found a point of stasis between the two factions and just ended my turn repeatedly, which allowed me to win the game without any difficulty, all while I seem to be getting points hand over fist. It was awesome, but clearly an exploit.
Need an interface button for the menu.
3
Tidalis / Playing quick games of tidalis
« on: March 24, 2013, 12:53:51 PM »
I never uninstalled this gem. Mainly for the music/musical gameplay. If you haven't tried it yet, you should.
4
Off Topic / Gratuitous Space Battles-free weekend
« on: February 23, 2013, 12:15:06 PM »
Those who know me know that I think this game is the biggest piece of trash, and I felt misled and tricked when I purchased it...
Yes, I'm still upset about this.
So I encourage you to try out the product now while it is a free weekend so you can see for yourself how the game really plays because we all know that the flashy explosions will make you want to buy whatever expansion comes after without realizing that you actually don't control the ships!
It's a ship configurator simulator. Have fun.
Yes, I'm still upset about this.
So I encourage you to try out the product now while it is a free weekend so you can see for yourself how the game really plays because we all know that the flashy explosions will make you want to buy whatever expansion comes after without realizing that you actually don't control the ships!
It's a ship configurator simulator. Have fun.
5
AI War / Are we going to get preservation wardens fixed for 6.0?
« on: October 21, 2012, 07:18:21 PM »
You know, the helpful ones that stop by your planet for reasons that we all make up to think we deserved it during a game? 
This issue has been around for over a year now, would be nice to get it back.
This issue has been around for over a year now, would be nice to get it back.
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AI War Technical Support / right control +m for auto explore not registering
« on: September 15, 2012, 01:28:02 PM »
Anyone having issues with the control keys, or this scenario in general?
7
Off Topic / project eternity(planescape authors return!)
« on: September 14, 2012, 06:52:20 PM »
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity
"Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment."
I'm in. Over half $1 million in less than one day.
"Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment."
I'm in. Over half $1 million in less than one day.
8
After Action Reports / Neinzul Ally the Fallen Spire
« on: May 27, 2012, 05:22:14 PM »
Cyborg and Minotaar decide to play a game along the same lines as the community challenge. Each player will play about two hours of gametime and e-mail it to the other. After action reports go here.
Map type:
lattice
100 planets
seed 230355810
0/60 increment
Ships:
Yng nanoswarm
complex
core shields off, everything else on
Game options
Minor factions:
Human rebellion
human resistance
Wardens (what's the point…)
enclaves
Dyson sphere
Zenith trader
Fallen spire
spire moderate
golem moderate
AI modifiers:
reveal AI types
AI 1:
Vicious Raider
8.3 random moderate
AI 2
Attritioner
8.3 random harder
normal hybrids
avenger
Report:
Researched so far (1:50):
Crystal and metal harvesters Mark III
advanced warp sensor
fighters Mark 2
Fortress Mark 1
The game starts off fairly calmly, with the first wave being only 100 armored ships. My first order of business is to get the economy going, as you are woefully poor in this game at the beginning. I get the harvesters up (Mark 3) and set about constructing defenses on my own planet. Scouting around, I noticed some easy targets next to the base, and a Mark 3 planet that has a couple ion cannons, asteroids, and a Zenith power generator. This looks like a great spot to target my playtime, as I like fortresses a lot but they do cost a great deal of energy. Especially if you are playing a hybrid hive game, they're really indispensable. Throwing up some turrets, I finish my fortress just-in-time for the first real test of the home planet.
Well that wasn't anything to be scared of.
Next in line, I notice that Raeiuschr touches a couple Mark 3 planets and a couple Mark 4's. Looks like a great spot for a fortress and a devious plan. I also need to take Pirapude for the economy's sake. I still can't keep above zero for any period of time. The battle on Raeiuschr goes relatively smoothly, with only a few hybrids to worry about.
I notice that the nanoswarm reclamation is abysmal. Absolutely abysmal. The only thing it does well is paralyze and do engine damage. We really need a counter in this game for reclamation performed. Other units' reclamation has been pretty decent, but looking at the behavior for this unit, it seems like it's taking the engine/status of the enemy into account for the targeting. The nanoswarm looks like a teenager learning how to drive, pressing on the gas and the brake at the same time every time it suicides into the enemy.
I'm already regretting this unit choice… watch me put 0 knowledge into this piece of space junk.
Next up on the list is to take care of Pirapude. It's an easy target with a decent mineral setup. I lay down some turrets, but I'm not planning on putting a fortress here right now. It doesn't have too much strategic value besides as a buffer from my home planet. Maybe over time, but right now I have more pressing things to do.
I'm looking at Shokil as the trophy for round one. The Zenith power generator is a great target as well as the ion cannons. The resource values alone for the cannons could be absolutely essential for taking down the avenger (should it become necessary). I don't have great chokepoints on this map, so I'm going to need the ability to replenish my army very quickly.
The plan is to use nanoswarms as a suicide distraction on Shokil. I can't get my scouts in their because of all the firepower and defense on that planet. It has warp guardians, gravity guardians, lightning guardians, hybrids, ion cannons, and a whole bunch of ships, higher mark than I. Fun. After I get my fortress up, I place all my turrets around the Shokil wormhole. I then start suiciding all of my nanoswarms onto Shokil.
This gives me just enough vision. Sending my scouts through is still ineffective, so I bring my heavily armored Raid Starships to soak up some damage while I sneak in a few scouts.
Success.
Then I bring my main fleet over to Raeiuschr (leaving some behind on Pirapude- there are eyebots cloaking here waiting to hit the command station if you leave it undefended). The eyebots' refractive armor needs laser counters. I start sending in my fleet and then dragging it back out, trying to draw in the AI to its doom. It's effective at pulling some of them.
The other side of the wormhole seems to be thinning out, so I sent in the main fleet and make a beeline for the command station.
Boom!
Victory is mine, as the planet soon falls to my fleet. I start setting up double force fields on the command station, a fortress, and forcefield protection for the strategic targets (Zenith power generator, ion cannons). I also lay down some mines around the Zenith power generator. They end up being quite ineffective (you will need to move these around Minotaar).
The AI launches a counterstrike against my new planet- including a carrier, oddly, with 420 unit counter underneath it.
Seems a little early for this. It contains a bunch of Raiders, unsurprisingly. Eyebots and Raiders can be annoying, probably will go for this AI first if possible.
The human resistance fighters decide to show up after the battle is over. Mighty nice of them.
And with that, I leave it to the next commander to choose what you want to research next. A couple notes on needs that need to be filled:
* Running out of tractor turrets. I'm aware that some people like gravity instead. Whatever you feel like.
* Running out of force fields.
* You will need some more defenses on Shokil. You cannot keep your main fleet there forever. Because you are fighting the raider AI, you will need refractive counters. Feel free to reposition the existing defensive infrastructure or use the asteroids for a second fleet.
* I have not started the quest line yet.
* So far, nanoswarms are good for a distraction and to cause weapon armaments to fire before you bring in your fleet. Besides that, looking forward to seeing what you can do with them. I have placed read regen chambers around.
The map:
Map type:
lattice
100 planets
seed 230355810
0/60 increment
Ships:
Yng nanoswarm
complex
core shields off, everything else on
Game options
Minor factions:
Human rebellion
human resistance
Wardens (what's the point…)
enclaves
Dyson sphere
Zenith trader
Fallen spire
spire moderate
golem moderate
AI modifiers:
reveal AI types
AI 1:
Vicious Raider
8.3 random moderate
AI 2
Attritioner
8.3 random harder
normal hybrids
avenger
Report:
Researched so far (1:50):
Crystal and metal harvesters Mark III
advanced warp sensor
fighters Mark 2
Fortress Mark 1
The game starts off fairly calmly, with the first wave being only 100 armored ships. My first order of business is to get the economy going, as you are woefully poor in this game at the beginning. I get the harvesters up (Mark 3) and set about constructing defenses on my own planet. Scouting around, I noticed some easy targets next to the base, and a Mark 3 planet that has a couple ion cannons, asteroids, and a Zenith power generator. This looks like a great spot to target my playtime, as I like fortresses a lot but they do cost a great deal of energy. Especially if you are playing a hybrid hive game, they're really indispensable. Throwing up some turrets, I finish my fortress just-in-time for the first real test of the home planet.
Well that wasn't anything to be scared of.
Next in line, I notice that Raeiuschr touches a couple Mark 3 planets and a couple Mark 4's. Looks like a great spot for a fortress and a devious plan. I also need to take Pirapude for the economy's sake. I still can't keep above zero for any period of time. The battle on Raeiuschr goes relatively smoothly, with only a few hybrids to worry about.
I notice that the nanoswarm reclamation is abysmal. Absolutely abysmal. The only thing it does well is paralyze and do engine damage. We really need a counter in this game for reclamation performed. Other units' reclamation has been pretty decent, but looking at the behavior for this unit, it seems like it's taking the engine/status of the enemy into account for the targeting. The nanoswarm looks like a teenager learning how to drive, pressing on the gas and the brake at the same time every time it suicides into the enemy.
I'm already regretting this unit choice… watch me put 0 knowledge into this piece of space junk.
Next up on the list is to take care of Pirapude. It's an easy target with a decent mineral setup. I lay down some turrets, but I'm not planning on putting a fortress here right now. It doesn't have too much strategic value besides as a buffer from my home planet. Maybe over time, but right now I have more pressing things to do.
I'm looking at Shokil as the trophy for round one. The Zenith power generator is a great target as well as the ion cannons. The resource values alone for the cannons could be absolutely essential for taking down the avenger (should it become necessary). I don't have great chokepoints on this map, so I'm going to need the ability to replenish my army very quickly.
The plan is to use nanoswarms as a suicide distraction on Shokil. I can't get my scouts in their because of all the firepower and defense on that planet. It has warp guardians, gravity guardians, lightning guardians, hybrids, ion cannons, and a whole bunch of ships, higher mark than I. Fun. After I get my fortress up, I place all my turrets around the Shokil wormhole. I then start suiciding all of my nanoswarms onto Shokil.
This gives me just enough vision. Sending my scouts through is still ineffective, so I bring my heavily armored Raid Starships to soak up some damage while I sneak in a few scouts.
Success.
Then I bring my main fleet over to Raeiuschr (leaving some behind on Pirapude- there are eyebots cloaking here waiting to hit the command station if you leave it undefended). The eyebots' refractive armor needs laser counters. I start sending in my fleet and then dragging it back out, trying to draw in the AI to its doom. It's effective at pulling some of them.
The other side of the wormhole seems to be thinning out, so I sent in the main fleet and make a beeline for the command station.
Boom!
Victory is mine, as the planet soon falls to my fleet. I start setting up double force fields on the command station, a fortress, and forcefield protection for the strategic targets (Zenith power generator, ion cannons). I also lay down some mines around the Zenith power generator. They end up being quite ineffective (you will need to move these around Minotaar).
The AI launches a counterstrike against my new planet- including a carrier, oddly, with 420 unit counter underneath it.
Seems a little early for this. It contains a bunch of Raiders, unsurprisingly. Eyebots and Raiders can be annoying, probably will go for this AI first if possible.
The human resistance fighters decide to show up after the battle is over. Mighty nice of them.
And with that, I leave it to the next commander to choose what you want to research next. A couple notes on needs that need to be filled:
* Running out of tractor turrets. I'm aware that some people like gravity instead. Whatever you feel like.
* Running out of force fields.
* You will need some more defenses on Shokil. You cannot keep your main fleet there forever. Because you are fighting the raider AI, you will need refractive counters. Feel free to reposition the existing defensive infrastructure or use the asteroids for a second fleet.
* I have not started the quest line yet.
* So far, nanoswarms are good for a distraction and to cause weapon armaments to fire before you bring in your fleet. Besides that, looking forward to seeing what you can do with them. I have placed read regen chambers around.
The map:
9
AI War / Cyborg's Community Challenge: Play It Forward
« on: May 05, 2012, 03:10:07 PM »
I have this idea that as a community we could tackle some hard challenges together, win or lose, in a way where we all get to experience a slice of a campaign. So I'm proposing that we create a challenge, and one person can take the challenge for two hours of in-game clock time.
I'll post the first couple hours, whoever wants to take it next should post here and "claim" the game, and come back after two hours of game clock with however the campaign looks. Keep going until the situation is victorious or unwinnable. Discuss strategies, issues, and so on.
I thought we could take on a moderately hard challenge first.
Map type:
crosshatch
80 planets
seed 548611156
0/60 increment
Normal caps/combat
Ships:
complex
core shields off, everything else on
Game options
Minor factions:
Human rebellion
human resistance
Wardens
enclaves
rocketry
Dyson sphere
Zenith trader
Fallen spire
civilian leaders
spire moderate
golem moderate
AI modifiers:
schizophrenic
reveal AI types
AI 1: - Camouflager
hybrid hives
8.3 random moderate
AI 2: - Everything
8.6 random harder
advanced hybrids
Report:
Researched:
Crystal and metal harvesters Mark III
advanced warp sensor
teleporting leech Mark II
Fortress Mark I
The first thing I did was secure the home front and try to create a box up against the edge of the board. Since we are playing with hybrids, I poke the nests to release the pressure and run back to my defense. You're going to find that the three planets I've taken, you may have to run back and forth with your fleet. I'm using reclamation units to test out whether or not reclamation is overpowered. So far, it isn't, because the AI gets so many ships that it doesn't matter. Also setting up fortresses, but it takes a long time to get the resources for it given the constant combat and planet-taking in between the whistles.
You also want to set up rally posts on every planet so that your reclamation units have somewhere to go and look at the controls I set up. Right now I'm doubling up power sources, because we have lots of power critical units like force fields and fortresses. You can turn those off when they're not needed to save power and get more resources. I've labeled the map, went with the economy first, and got a nice fleet going.
Good luck, let's see where this goes.
I'll post the first couple hours, whoever wants to take it next should post here and "claim" the game, and come back after two hours of game clock with however the campaign looks. Keep going until the situation is victorious or unwinnable. Discuss strategies, issues, and so on.
I thought we could take on a moderately hard challenge first.
Map type:
crosshatch
80 planets
seed 548611156
0/60 increment
Normal caps/combat
Ships:
complex
core shields off, everything else on
Game options
Minor factions:
Human rebellion
human resistance
Wardens
enclaves
rocketry
Dyson sphere
Zenith trader
Fallen spire
civilian leaders
spire moderate
golem moderate
AI modifiers:
schizophrenic
reveal AI types
AI 1: - Camouflager
hybrid hives
8.3 random moderate
AI 2: - Everything
8.6 random harder
advanced hybrids
Report:
Researched:
Crystal and metal harvesters Mark III
advanced warp sensor
teleporting leech Mark II
Fortress Mark I
The first thing I did was secure the home front and try to create a box up against the edge of the board. Since we are playing with hybrids, I poke the nests to release the pressure and run back to my defense. You're going to find that the three planets I've taken, you may have to run back and forth with your fleet. I'm using reclamation units to test out whether or not reclamation is overpowered. So far, it isn't, because the AI gets so many ships that it doesn't matter. Also setting up fortresses, but it takes a long time to get the resources for it given the constant combat and planet-taking in between the whistles.
You also want to set up rally posts on every planet so that your reclamation units have somewhere to go and look at the controls I set up. Right now I'm doubling up power sources, because we have lots of power critical units like force fields and fortresses. You can turn those off when they're not needed to save power and get more resources. I've labeled the map, went with the economy first, and got a nice fleet going.
Good luck, let's see where this goes.
10
Off Topic / Legend Of Grimrock
« on: April 15, 2012, 11:43:31 AM »
If you haven't tried this yet, and you are looking for a dungeon crawler (first-person perspective), this is a good one. Plenty of secrets to find, puzzles to solve, and party-based combat. There is also a story, although it is certainly not heavy on dialogue. If anyone remembers the Hunter X Hunter episodes during the Hunter exam where they are trying to descend a mountain/prison tower as a team, it's almost exactly like that.
11
Off Topic / ultros is back!!
« on: March 22, 2012, 08:49:02 PM »
http://kotaku.com/5895570/final-fantasy-xiii+2s-goofy-octopus-dlc-is-straight-outta-final-fantasy-vi/gallery/1
For those of us old enough to remember how epic he was.
For those of us old enough to remember how epic he was.
12
AI War / The new hacking mechanic
« on: March 06, 2012, 11:27:47 PM »
Are people finding the hacking mechanic useful? As I understand it, you only get to do so many raids. If you use up one of these raids doing hacking, that's one less you can knowledge raid. Best case scenario, you save your raid, and you still get knowledge to unlock a ship and the ship that you unlock with your advanced research station.
Thoughts? Also, is this encouraging folks to save scum to get the ship that they want?
Thoughts? Also, is this encouraging folks to save scum to get the ship that they want?
13
AI War Technical Support / can anyone tell me why my ships aren't building?
« on: January 28, 2012, 04:19:39 PM »
None of my ship producers are able to build, such as the dock on peni. I have plenty of energy and resources; can you please tell me why?
14
AI War / Economy efficiency report: harvesters vs. command stations
« on: January 21, 2012, 03:14:51 PM »
I wanted to draw attention to a discussion in the strategy forum about harvester versus economy command station resource efficiency. It's worthy of its own thread as a separate topic.
knowledge benefit (+)
Harvester 2 3250 8/per resource node
Harvester 3 4000 16/per resource node
economy station 1 free 32 metal and crystal
economy station 2 4000 80 metal and crystal
economy station 3 5000 160 metal and crystal
Starting position: 10,000--> 13,000 knowledge available
4 metal and 8 crystal nodes
Taking the Harvester Path
If you research crystal harvester 3 for 7250 knowledge,
16*8 = +128(Crystal) after home planet
And after taking one planet,
one crystal resource node 16
two crystal resource nodes 32
three crystal resource nodes 48
four crystal resource nodes 64
Results:
All things being equal, you could end up with up to 192 bonus crystal resources. Interestingly, if you go this kind of route, it's because you want to rush raid starships, antimatter (also known as the dreadnought, siege starship, piece of shi* starship), or missile frigate (LOL missile frigates
). 64 + (8x)y adjusted!
If you want to divide by the average bonus in a ideal scenario, you get +96 resources. Conversion penalty is -11 (manufactories), so the adjusted resource bonus is +85 in the scenario where you get four crystal nodes.
Taking the economic command station 3 path
The knowledge cost isn't entirely equal, but let's say that you rushed economic 3.
9000 knowledge
+256 resources
Proportion comparison (knowledge per resource, lower is better):
9000/256 ! = 7250/128
35.15 ! = 56.64 kpr
0 resource bonus after home planet
After taking one planet, 256 resource bonus (128y adjusted!).
Results:
The balanced approach favors enclave, cloak, and Leech starships (yuck). It also favors fighters. There is no manufactory penalty .
Taking the economic command station 2 + harvester 2 path
7250 knowledge
64+96 (economy 2 - economy 1) = +160 resources
kpr ratio (lower is better):
9000/256 ! = 7250/160
35.15 ! = 45.31
Let's look at this further…
8*8 = +64(Crystal) after home planet
And after taking one planet,
one crystal resource node 8
two crystal resource nodes 16
three crystal resource nodes 24
four crystal resource nodes 32
64 resource bonus after home planet
After taking one planet, 64+96+8x resource bonus, 160+8x. 32+80y+(4x)y adjusted.
Final conclusion:
Economy 3 > Hybrid (Econ 2/harvester 2) > harvester 3
With some exceptions, most notably if you are not going to take the bordering planet of your home planet. In addition, I have not calculated this over time. The important statistics you should be getting out of this are that certain economic combinations favor different strategies. In addition, you should look at the starting position versus the position after one planet.
The difference between economy command stations and harvesters:
y is the number of additional planets after the home planet
x is the number of resource nodes
Adjustments are to average out resources, without regard to manufactory penalties, although we have mentioned them as -11 per manufactory. You can calculate that if you want.
When you do factor in penalties, the economy command station path looks better and better. But is it always? No. This is because you need to look at the whole game as occurring over time t. A slow start, deep strike, or rushing a certain ship could change your choice. Going full economy can make you militarily weak in the short term. By choosing the harvester or the hybrid path, it actually helps you in the short term with some knowledge left over for ship upgrades. However, as a general rule, economy command stations are noticeably superior with a 35.15 kpr!
I hope I didn't make any math errors! Feel free to point out any concerns, comments, or questions. I did use the tables feature to try and make this more readable, but it doesn't work at a certain size.
knowledge benefit (+)
Harvester 2 3250 8/per resource node
Harvester 3 4000 16/per resource node
economy station 1 free 32 metal and crystal
economy station 2 4000 80 metal and crystal
economy station 3 5000 160 metal and crystal
Starting position: 10,000--> 13,000 knowledge available
4 metal and 8 crystal nodes
Taking the Harvester Path
If you research crystal harvester 3 for 7250 knowledge,
16*8 = +128(Crystal) after home planet
And after taking one planet,
one crystal resource node 16
two crystal resource nodes 32
three crystal resource nodes 48
four crystal resource nodes 64
Results:
All things being equal, you could end up with up to 192 bonus crystal resources. Interestingly, if you go this kind of route, it's because you want to rush raid starships, antimatter (also known as the dreadnought, siege starship, piece of shi* starship), or missile frigate (LOL missile frigates
). 64 + (8x)y adjusted!If you want to divide by the average bonus in a ideal scenario, you get +96 resources. Conversion penalty is -11 (manufactories), so the adjusted resource bonus is +85 in the scenario where you get four crystal nodes.
Taking the economic command station 3 path
The knowledge cost isn't entirely equal, but let's say that you rushed economic 3.
9000 knowledge
+256 resources
Proportion comparison (knowledge per resource, lower is better):
9000/256 ! = 7250/128
35.15 ! = 56.64 kpr
0 resource bonus after home planet
After taking one planet, 256 resource bonus (128y adjusted!).
Results:
The balanced approach favors enclave, cloak, and Leech starships (yuck). It also favors fighters. There is no manufactory penalty .
Taking the economic command station 2 + harvester 2 path
7250 knowledge
64+96 (economy 2 - economy 1) = +160 resources
kpr ratio (lower is better):
9000/256 ! = 7250/160
35.15 ! = 45.31
Let's look at this further…
8*8 = +64(Crystal) after home planet
And after taking one planet,
one crystal resource node 8
two crystal resource nodes 16
three crystal resource nodes 24
four crystal resource nodes 32
64 resource bonus after home planet
After taking one planet, 64+96+8x resource bonus, 160+8x. 32+80y+(4x)y adjusted.
Final conclusion:
Economy 3 > Hybrid (Econ 2/harvester 2) > harvester 3
With some exceptions, most notably if you are not going to take the bordering planet of your home planet. In addition, I have not calculated this over time. The important statistics you should be getting out of this are that certain economic combinations favor different strategies. In addition, you should look at the starting position versus the position after one planet.
The difference between economy command stations and harvesters:
y is the number of additional planets after the home planet
x is the number of resource nodes
Adjustments are to average out resources, without regard to manufactory penalties, although we have mentioned them as -11 per manufactory. You can calculate that if you want.
| Adjustment | (home) | x = 4,y = 1 | x =4,y = 2 | x =4,y = 3 | |
| harvester | 64 + (8x)y adjusted | 64 | 96 | 128 | 160 |
| Econ cmd station 3 | 128y adjusted | 0 | 128 | 256 | 384 |
| Hybrid (2/2) | 32+80y+(4x)y adjusted | 32 | 128 | 224 | 320 |
When you do factor in penalties, the economy command station path looks better and better. But is it always? No. This is because you need to look at the whole game as occurring over time t. A slow start, deep strike, or rushing a certain ship could change your choice. Going full economy can make you militarily weak in the short term. By choosing the harvester or the hybrid path, it actually helps you in the short term with some knowledge left over for ship upgrades. However, as a general rule, economy command stations are noticeably superior with a 35.15 kpr!
I hope I didn't make any math errors! Feel free to point out any concerns, comments, or questions. I did use the tables feature to try and make this more readable, but it doesn't work at a certain size.
15
AI War / 5.021 criticisms
« on: January 14, 2012, 10:39:49 AM »
First let me say that there is way more positive than anything else for the next update. Bravo, looking forward to it, release, please!
Some criticisms on the new helper feature. I actually do have a friend that would benefit from the helper feature. This person is brand new, rather overwhelmed by the complexity, and this will help with training. I do think that there is one glaring issue, and that is apparently you have not created an interface that abstracts the controls from the events in the game. I don't want to play with someone else's controls- which are more often than not some horrible defaults or otherwise not even set. As you know, I'm really fussy about controls (I changed them all for Valley without wind, also). It would be helpful if you would abstract that and make it a permission setting.
"Unintentedly" - Must be a camping accident?
The best changes were the new helper feature and buffing neinzul ships. The worst change is buffing hybrids in a way that just causes some other mechanic to trigger (note that these kinds of relationships are only noted by players who read your forums). Creating weak relationships between mechanics is just going to cause confusion. Also, Dyson could actually be helpful.
Some criticisms on the new helper feature. I actually do have a friend that would benefit from the helper feature. This person is brand new, rather overwhelmed by the complexity, and this will help with training. I do think that there is one glaring issue, and that is apparently you have not created an interface that abstracts the controls from the events in the game. I don't want to play with someone else's controls- which are more often than not some horrible defaults or otherwise not even set. As you know, I'm really fussy about controls (I changed them all for Valley without wind, also). It would be helpful if you would abstract that and make it a permission setting.
"Unintentedly" - Must be a camping accident?
The best changes were the new helper feature and buffing neinzul ships. The worst change is buffing hybrids in a way that just causes some other mechanic to trigger (note that these kinds of relationships are only noted by players who read your forums). Creating weak relationships between mechanics is just going to cause confusion. Also, Dyson could actually be helpful.
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