Topics

1

Skyward Collapse / Yggdrasil?

« on: May 09, 2013, 07:19:41 AM »

Ok, this one occurred to me just earlier when playing, but, with the current version of the game, and systems to be added soon, this is the one power that now seems really out of place.

It LOOKS like this particular power was designed to be a super-high-risk move that would get the player big points (because of all of the destruction guaranteed to follow).

But in the current version of the game, this seems basically useless.   Particularly as you get later on into the game.... all it'd do is crowd the map so nobody could move much!  And the ratio of Red VS Blue would actually go unchanged for the most part with this one, since it's directly copying *everything* on the board.


So I'm wondering... should this one be changed?   DOES it have strategic use that I"m not seeing?   Even with the ideas behind the cataclysms, I STILL cant think of even one remote possibility where this would actually be a good idea.  It's TOO chaotic, and there are too many other good options available to the player without that insane risk.   Even if it DOES have a use, it seems like it's probably the sort that'd be extremely situational, that most players would never use anyway.

2

Skyward Collapse LPs/AARs / Feedback, first impressions, horrible text wall

« on: May 04, 2013, 08:17:53 AM »

Ok, so, here we go, with my initial horrible long blob of words.

First impressions this time, so this is all coming from the map and setup from the tutorial.   Nothing crazy has happened yet (well, not TOO crazy anyway) and there's plenty of features I havent had the chance to touch yet.


The very first thing I want to address though:   The UI.   There's never, ever enough info here!   The more I figured things out, the more info I wanted.... yet wasnt getting.   And this applies to literally every single part of the UI.  For example, a screen showing just how many of each building I have would be nice (the game seriously needs some overall info screens that I can pull up).   But in addition, if say I want to go create a pig farm, on the pig farm popup when I go to choose it from the menu, show me in that popup just how many pig farms I already have.  Perhaps even highlight them, when I'm going to place another one.    There's *alot* of buildings in this game, and they're all very important.... there needs to be better ways of enabling the player to keep track of them.   Lots of better ways.

This stuff applies to units as well.   For example, put a number on every unit showing just what level it's at.  That was something I was often checking, to see just which units I had upgraded from level 1 and which I hadnt.


There's SO many suggestions to make here that honestly, I'd have to make a whole other giant-word-blob post (or mantis entry) just to hold them.  Seriously:   This is THE aspect of the game that needs the most work right now, at least in my view.



Ok.  So.  Anyway.   The game itself.


First of all, I like the overall artstyle.  Particularly the landscape ends up being very cool looking.  Buildings are also very nice.  One thing that might be a sticking point though:  No unit animations.   I dont think it detracts from the look really, but you KNOW people will nitpick about that one, just.... because.   But yeah, the whole landscape, really liking that the most so far.  Very striking.   As before, I like the whole hand-drawn artstyle that this studio is using.

Now.... the gameplay.   Firstly, I will say:   The tutorial needs expanding.  ALOT of expanding.  This game requires some very different types of strategy than most other strategy/tactics games do.  Very different indeed.  It's alot of the same sorts of strategy that is used in Dwarf Fortress, actually.... alot of the same themes, in that you're trying to get things to happen, but you do not have any direct control, and you also need to be pitting the AI against itself quite often.   DF players, I think will have the easiest time figuring this game out, because the strategies (the types of strategies, anyway) really are going to feel familiar to them.  People used to other strategy titles though are going to be baffled.   The tutorial should give full-blown examples of some strategies, why the player should use those strategies, and what exactly they accomplish.   Examples in general would just really fill out the tutorial much better.  I sat with the game for a good couple of hours here tonight for my first session with it, and at least the first hour was almost entirely me being rather confused as to just what I should be doing and why.


Now, once I did start to figure it out, the whole "idea" of the game clicked with me.  I love the concept, of playing 2 sides against each other constantly, instead of playing one side and trying to beat the other.  I also love the whole "growing" landscape bit.  There are so many interesting things that can come from that.... it'll take forever to really dig into all of the tactics and such that are possible here.  So far, this seems like a very deep game.... and this is before I've seen anything of edicts or gods or the.... er.... mythical units, if that's what they're called, I havent had a chance to use them yet, took me bloody forever to gete a Seer up on either side.

Which brings up one thing:  The whole "on demand" concept, for those resources.  Pottery and lumber, that sort.  I was never entirely sure how that worked, or how much of these I actually had at the time, or what I could do to increase it.    The actual BASE resources, those are simple enough to understand.  If I know I need logs for whatever reason, well, it's easy to figure out what I can do to make more logs.   But with lumber, I was never sure just what to do.... do I need more of the actual lumber-producing building?  How is it getting the amount of lumber I have at a given time, which seems to hop up and down alot?   Do I need more chapman units?  Or is it the lack of logs?  Yet sometimes it might happen even if I have a bunch of logs (or whatever), so.... argh.   Yeah, that's the most confuzzling aspect of the game right now.    This needs to be explained alot better, particularly since it's such a core concept.

Oh, and that also reminds me of another small suggestion:  Units, it doesnt show how many points they are worth when killed, on the unit's status popup when I'm looking at them.   Or if it does point that out somewhere I didnt see where.

Also, I'm not entirely sure on how population works and what it does.


One other thing I found is that I'm not entirely sure how to point units towards specific areas.   Like, what can I do to suggest that some military units might want to go over towards a specific area?   Though, that might have more to do with the mythical units;  since I havent tried those out yet, that might be exactly what I need.   But beyond that, I'm not entirely sure what my options here are (beyond that "commandment" thing that just throws EVERYTHING into one area, which seems like I should only use it sparingly).  Basing my tactics and strategies around their autonomous movements though works quite well, and yet again there's tons and tonms of depth here, I think.    Unit combat and damage and such is pretty easy to follow, so no troubles there.

I do notice though that the chapman units seem nigh-invulnerable, at least at the start.    Worrying about them being in danger never seems to be an issue, since they seem to have silly amounts of health.  Though, I'm not entirely sure just yet on how that should be balanced, so that's just me mentioning it;  I might think different of that as I learn more.

I also like the sheer number of options available to the player.... it seems that there's a gazillion possible things I can do on any given turn, which is great.   And that's WITH half the buildings and such locked and a total lack of mythical units and gods and such at this point.   I'm very interested indeed to see how things get when those things start opening up!


One other concept that I really like is the fact that this game is also played for score;  it's not just about winning each game, it's about winning each game with lots of awesome happening during.    I like that, I think that's missing from alot of non-4x strategy titles.   That to me ups the replay value a ton, though I think this one has alot of that by default, really.


Some bits of the strategy and tactics are harder to figure out though;  for example I'm never entirely sure (yet) on how positioning of resources and production buildings is going to affect things.   It's like, ok... do I try to place this wheat farm near the city, or should I place it way over here instead, and just what might happen if I do?   It's very clear that things like this will indeed have important impact, but I havent experimented enough yet with it, and it seems a tough aspect to learn.

I havent seen any nasty exploits yet, but there are a couple of ideas that occur to me;  for example, what's to stop the player from just jamming structures of the red guys near the military-producing buildings of the blue guys for easy points as the blue guys pop up and smash them?   Or is that actually a valid idea?    There's a few things like this that I thought of during the game, and I'll have to experiment with them a bit.   But I havent seen any obvious ones or anything overpowered.


Finally, game bugs and such.... aint seen many.   Though, I noticed in your patch notes that you said you fixed units going diagonally between mountains/lakes.... I should point out, it is indeed not fixed.   I saw that a couple of times during that first session.   

EDIT:  Ignore this, I just noticed that that fix is in the patch we dont actually have yet!   I thought it was in the 802 one.


Also, the "inhabited" type tile, I notice that units of all types (but particularly chapman and traders) will occaisionally get really wierd around these, and sorta bounce in and out of them or make strange movements nearby, before going about their other business, sometimes wasting their entire turn doing this.    This was happening pretty frequently.   I havent seen any glitches past those though, not yet.    I'm mentioning this here instead of on mantis for the simple reason that I'm on the accursed laptop and it gets bloody weird with some sites (including that one), so this will have to do for now.  Tomorrow I should be able to do it the normal way.


As far as balance issues, I cant say much on that yet.   Need more time with the game.



Overall though.... I can say this is a very engaging game.   Easily held my attention for a good bit longer than I'd intended on giving it today (particularly when I'm a bit low on sleep, haha).  Not a bad thing at all, that, heh.   I have much yet to learn, but so far I'm enjoying the heck outta this.   I'm thinking that this one might appeal to many players more than AVWW or Haven did;  as much as I liked those games, there are probably many players that come from having played JUST AI War, and associate Arcen more with pure strategy titles;  I wondered if that mighta been a major factor with those games, since they did definitely stray from that idea.  This one though is clearly pure strategy/tactical all the way through, and with tons of depth, so, here's hoping that's a good selling point for those players.

Also:   Make videos of this game, or link to players that do playthroughs or whatever.   Giving interested players the chance to see examples of how the game works and what kinds of tactics and ideas are used is very important here, I think.   I myself often get ideas on what games I want to buy based on LPs I watch, not to mention getting more info on HOW to play them and understand them when I otherwise would have had trouble learning them (like with Anno 2070, or Dwarf Fortress). 


I'll have more (alot more) for you later!   Likely this game will be the only thing I do later tonight as gaming goes.   I tend to get really absorbed into turn-based strategy stuffs.


Hopefully that wasnt too much text for ya there, hah.   Also any advice about the game based on what i've said here that might help me learn it better is most appreciated!

3

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Transmogrify into bat....

« on: March 29, 2013, 08:11:28 AM »

Posting this here because I couldnt find a Mantis listing for this, and also because the Mantis site is flipping out.   The forum is acting up pretty bad too (at least for me), but not AS bad, I can actually load some stuff and hopefully post this....

Anyway, so, messed around with the bat transformation in my current game, and...  it occurs to me that this spell might be just a TAD overpowered and full of exploits.    I realized this when I was able to fly over the entirety of a Citadel area..... which would normally be very long and dangerous.... but as the bat, I just flew right over the whole thing, up high enough that nothing could even challenge me.   I had to drop down maybe once because of a wall, and to get the wind thing at the end, but that's about it.

But it works in pretty much any surface zone, as it lets you simply skip most sections.   Even makes some enemies much easier to deal with, allowing you to approach at angles that you normally would not be able to.   It's like a win button.  The condition of it turning off when you get hit simply doesnt matter.   Heck, even those normally-horrible imp balls, the big black things that spew out 4 of those flying nightmares if you attack it, those become easy to beat because of how maneuverable the bat is, plus the lightning spell I had with that.... normally ONE of those flying jerks is a threat, but with that, 4 of them were nothing.

I get that the final tier spells are supposed to be stronger than the rest, and for the most part, they're all fine, but that one might do with some changes (though I cant think of exactly what to suggest there).   It's the only truly exploitable spell I've seen in the game.


A couple of small things while I'm thinking about it too:    Going through the Citadel areas now, I notice.... there is no "control panel" that you have to smash, as the description says.... heck, there was no BUILDING anywhere.   It was just a vast overland area with a wind-generator at the end (is this how they're supposed to be?), but the description makes it sound like you're infiltrating the place to knock it's shields down or something.   Oh, and I didnt actually need the triple-jump with these.... I did the other one without the bat, and I didnt have triple-jump yet (the RNG was really, really mean about where it put that final science lab, so I havent opened it yet, but I attempted this place anyway).


That though..... really the only problems I've found on my current run.    Though, I have noticed that the.... er..... I forget what they're called, I've been calling them "amp" towers, as per their original name.... the thing that does that massive purification effect.... those things, half the time, they're basically useless, because using one often opens up a Deep Gate, which is an incredibly bad idea.    Excellent otherwise though.... I think this game really did come out very well indeed.

4

Shattered Haven / More feedback

« on: March 16, 2013, 05:39:58 AM »

Ok, so, I got back to this after finally getting the blasted screen situated (so I can maximize it and play without eye strain).... it strikes me that Windows itself handles resolutions about as badly as is conceivably possible.   Kept having problems with this due to Windows own interference (and Nvidia...sigh).   Not even going to try to describe that bit, just going to pretend it didnt happen, lol.  It's actually been a screwy issue for a few games recently, not just this one.   Pretty sure it's gone now though! 

So, anyway, further into the game now, and I dont have much in the way of complaints here..... the only level that's bothered me much so far is the Stantonburg (I'm sure I got that name wrong) boss.... seems like too much trial & error, rather than strategy / puzzle solving / reflexes.   Until you know where to go, it's going to be frustrating.   When you DO know where to go, it couldnt be easier and mostly then consists of just standing in one spot.   

Also, that Mesmerizing Maze or whatever it's called..... arrrrgh.    The way to get 900 points (I think is how much was needed for the gold) wasnt at all clear.... and STILL wasnt clear after I managed to do it.   After I dropped the bomb and a bunch of grays popped, I could swear the game said I had about 400 points.... that plus the other bonuses werent enough to get 900, so I dont even know how I got it.   And before that, I'd spent a bunch of time wondering where there might be hidden items I wasnt seeing and how to get to them.    Other than that bit, if you're not being confused by the goals for gold, that level is very easy.

The Factory goal wasnt too tough either, though it's easy to get smacked when you're trying to do it, so it's challenging enough.

I liked that bonus level with the pits.... that was a good one.


Nothing else in specific levels to mention....  everything has been pretty good so far.   No real glitches.    Though, after the boss fight, when the New Grays are wandering around, I did have a moment when avoiding the 2 that are on that one particular screen, where the second character got caught by them and just kept ricocheting back and forth between them as they chased me around.   It doesnt cause any problems, but it does look pretty stupid if that happens, heh.

Also, as the graphics go..... being able to have it mostly fill the screen really did make a huge difference.   It's so much easier to appreciate the graphics when it's like that, it just looks much better than it does with the shrunken screen.


And I've been able to get gold on MOST levels so far, some are tougher than others.

The more I play this, the more I'm going to be very interested to see the editor become available.  There's so much possibility here for level design & trading.



All in all, this has been very enjoyable so far (aside from the "ARGH STUPID SCREEN" part), and is a great example of why I'm now following your various games closely.


Oh, one thing I did think of:   That girl in Stantonburg that gives you the purple key, she wont do it if you approach her from behind, by smashing the bookshelves behind her, which I did out of sheer impatience as I tend to, hah.  Talked to her after doing that, and she had no new dialogue, so I thought I'd hit a glitch, and went to talk to the guy again.... came back, and then it occurred to me to go around to the other side. 

5

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Spell balance!

« on: February 10, 2013, 02:03:12 AM »

Surprised there wasnt one of these here already, so I thought I'd just make one.

Similar to the monster thread, just give some thoughts on spell balance as it is currently!  Either for individual spells, entire spell types, or specific classes.   There's definitely some screwy balance issues with some of these, so I figured this would be a good idea.


So let's see here....


Rocket spells:  The only ones I currently consider entirely useless right now.  These are, at least in my view, really terrible.  The only thing they help me do is blow myself up.  As far as I'm concerned, a class with a rocket spell is a class that actually only has 3 spells instead of 4. 

Touch spells:  These are good for the Shallows areas.... but that's about it.  I know they're also meant to stop enemy shots, but I've honestly always found them useless for this.   The hitbox and the timing and all that is just too screwy, most of the time it just leads to me taking a hit, so I ignore this aspect of these entirely.   Only use them in the shallows.

Whips:  Sorta the same as the touch spells.... good only for the shallows.   There's the armor-breaking, but.... never really found much use for that.  Particularly since the damage of these just seems very weak.  At least the touch spells can be fired more rapidly.

Seekers:   I forget what these are actually called, but they're the homing shots.   They're very, very situational, and they actually seem to glitch out alot;  sometimes they'll fire BACKWARDS, and completely ignore an enemy that might be right in front of me at varying possible distances.  Their cooldown is really nasty.... gotta have a very specific sort of situation indeed for these.  Dont use them all that much, but they're decent at least.

Sliders: These are pretty useful.  Great against crawlers of any sort.   I seem to remember some versions of these where the caliber was a bit too high though.... a spell with as much utility as this already has should probably always have a very low caliber.

Sines:  Another good utility style spell.  Super useful in towers, often not easy to hit with though.   These seem well-balanced to me.

Bombs: I use these whenever I can.  I suspect alot of players wont use these much, because they're rather strange compared to other spells, but I use them for basically everything.  LOTS of possible uses balanced out by being difficult to learn to use.

Campfire:  Why arent there more defensive spells in the game?  That sort of spell is pretty neat.  Campfire is useful without ever being overpowered.  Same with that water ring ammo spell, which has alot of the same uses.

Fullisades:  Honestly, these may as well be straight shot spells.  There's not THAT much difference in possible angles with these, and I've never found all that much of a practical use for them.   Not sure what could be done to make these more useful....

Those are some that I can think of right now.


As for actual spell classes, any class that has two straight-shot spells should probably be changed.  There's a particularly awful one in the tier 1 set, it's an entropy sort of thing, has two straight-shot spells and a touch spell.... very bad class, definitely the most useless one I can think of.   Shouldnt be two straight-shot spells in any single class though, as there's not all that much difference between that sort, so you end up with a class that just has less possible uses.

6

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Monster balance! (Round 1, through version 0.800)

« on: February 07, 2013, 03:46:38 AM »

Ok, hasnt really been a thread about this that I can remember, so I figured I'd start one.

The point of this is to post thoughts on either individual monsters that could do with some tweaks, or on the balance of a certain biome type as a whole, depending on which enemies appear there.   The problems with the laser spiders are already known, so I'll skip those.    I'll start with just a few here based on my latest session with the game.


1.  Flying Eyeballs:   Reduce their health.... seriously.   These guys are alot like mosquitos in that they're incredibly difficult to hit, and unlike mosquitos they drop lots and lots of those bombs.   The attack pattern doesnt need changing.... just their health level, particularly if they are to remain common like they are in the craggy zones.   Aside from the spiders, this is probably the one enemy closest to being "broken" right now.

2. Urban Robots:  If that's the correct name, I forget.   The little guys on wheels that fire the splitting orange bullet.   Like the eyeballs, a bit too much health on them, so it gets kinda tedious to take them all out.  Considering the strong splitting shot, AND the ability to counter-attack, these guys definitely dont need a ton of health to put up a fight.

3. Clockwork Avian:  Again not necessarily getting the name right, but it's the bright yellow-ish bird that just charges at you.   A suggested change to these guys is simple:   have them make some sort of noise or something when they approach.   These guys can lead to some cheap hits currently, particularly in level-up towers, with the fact that there'll be nothing there for awhile, and then very suddenly one of these is on top of you;  the player character isnt quite fast enough to dodge these guys by pure reaction.   They're fine otherwise.

4. Sphinx:   This one is very simple: take these guys out of caves, specifically.   When they appear in a cave, it's most often in the sort of slice that has a super-low cieling, meaning there' no room to jump over their ice attack when you're up close to melee them.... you're pretty much forced to either take some damage, or waste ammo.   They're totally fine other than that one problem.



That's just a start, the ones I can think of at this moment.   I'll have more to add to this list later.

7

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Demonaica stomping unused/untouched buildings?

« on: February 01, 2013, 07:55:14 AM »

I'm not entirely clear on this, but is this actually supposed to happen?

My understanding was that in order for him and his monsters to stomp things, they had to be at least purified, right? 

But in my current game and in my previous, he constantly just wrecks things that I havent purified.  Mostly he does this on the flashing tiles, but I've seen him do it on the darker tiles that you cant even move across with the player.   Kinda breaks the strategy down a bit....

8

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Some thoughts on the strategic game

« on: January 27, 2013, 09:01:17 AM »

Mostly a thread about balance this time.   The strategic game is coming along pretty well, but there are some parts that might need a change, as things are rather unbalanced at the moment.


Firstly, the "wound" system.   The idea of having different classes, with different max health levels, makes sense.... except for the bit where the wound system means that those numbers essentially mean nothing, because the instant ANYTHING goes wrong, the survivor in question is instantly rendered completely useless, and in many situations, it takes SO MANY TURNS to heal them that you may as well just leave them and get new ones later;  particularly if you need to build another clinic first, which makes it take even longer.   Perhaps have it so that only specific things can cause a "wound" state?  I'm not sure what to suggest here, but that's the biggest thing I've noticed with the survivors so far, is that currently, the classes only matter based on how far they can move.  A wounded survivor is, for all intents and purposes, already dead, unless I have someone who happens to be already sitting on a clinic, which actually doesnt happen much.

Why doesnt it happen much?  That brings me to my second point: the different area types.  Currently, the "abandoned town" areas are important to the point of being a little absurd, because they're almost the only place where you can get scrap, and they're often the only places that provide much in the way of shelter due to the large housing tiles only really appearing there.   You can build shelters elsewhere, sure, but..... they're expensive to make (even worse though is how LONG it takes to make them), and the only real place to get any scrap is..... yeah, the abandoned towns.    Demonaica reaching any abandoned town area is a massive blow, because chances are, there's nothing else even somewhat nearby where you can go about doing alot of the things you need to do.   Most tiles cant be built upon, and even if they could, you wont have any scrap to build them with.   Getting far into the game seems to REQUIRE quite a bit of luck here;  you *have* to find an abandoned town and have a number of guys able to sit on factories for quite some time to build up much scrap.   Building factories anywhere else is a mistake, because they're crazy expensive, and chances are, you have to be using that scrap to build farms and clinics.


Aside from abandoned towns (because of factories), ice age areas (because you can make farms there), and those wet areas with the name I cant remember (again, because you can make farms there), the majority of the "biomes" seem largely useless, as far as your survivors go;  you simply have no options in most of them, aside from scavenging, which doesnt seem to help much.  And that's IF you can scavenge there..... areas like that, like forests or deserts or whatever, alot of them might have high danger levels.... but no way of mitigating that danger.  You cant make any changes to the area, so there's no strategy to apply to be able to deal with it, aside from going around it.   

....but you cant quite do THAT either.   One other thing I'm noticing:  it doesnt take long at all before Demonaica's destruction rate starts to outdo my slow rate of expansion/building and resource gain.   How fast I expand seems dependant too much on luck.    Luck in finding Amp towers to use for this, and luck in how long it takes Demonaica to decide to stomp it.   Without the amp towers, I cant find important new areas (mostly those towns again) fast enough... or open them up fast enough...  to actually HAVE options for where to send my guys.


Finally, Mana...... it's nigh-impossible to get.   Not sure what I'm supposed to do about that one.   I've found ONE pyramid, and it got stomped almost right away.



So, there's my current views on the balance of the strategic game;  just some basic feedback.   I love the direction the whole thing is going;   the depth is better than ever, and it's so much more INTERESTING than before.   Alot of imbalances though, and alot of the game seems to be very dependant on the RNG placing enough important things in areas where I can find an access them.


And keep in mind while reading this feedback that this is all based on my current playthrough, which is the first full one I've done since the last set of major changes to the strategy bits.    I think I'm nearly 30 turns in in my current game;  no feats found yet, though I know where one of those labs is, but cant really get to it due to crazy high danger levels around it.


That reminds me, one other thing:  It's not too clear at all just how much having multiple survivors near each other changes the "danger" level of areas they're in.

9

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Some thoughts on current strategic system

« on: January 12, 2013, 08:47:22 AM »

Right, so, going to give some impressions I've gotten on the new strategic setup, and see what others think of it as well.


Now first of all, there are definitely some balance issues.... food and scrap amounts seem still balanced for the previous system, which assumed that there would be the passive benefits and such.   But that's not what I'm going to get into here, as that bit is probably easy to fix.


My first impressions of this new setup is kinda simple:   It feels rather.... dumbed down. 

In my current game, I have about 6 survivors.  And quite often, on many turns, I *dont* move them.   Now, some of this is because of the balance issues, sure.... for example, there *needs* to be multiple survivors sitting on a farm, or it wont do enough.   But beyond just that..... there's not much strategic reason to move them.    There are a few reasons for this.


One of the biggest reasons is the tiles.   There are now only a few tile types that survivors can directly interact with.   These seem to be farms, factories, tiles that farms/factories can be built on, and enemy towers/walls.    The towers I'm not even sure entirely count, as it's totally possible to completely ignore them and enter the areas they're in anyway.... they're just more dangerous, is all.   And the other tiles are too important to warrant taking time to deal with those.   But mostly, it's that the majority of the different types of tiles simply have no strategic value at this point.     You dont actually interact with the majority of them now.... the only strategy for alot of the "special tiles" is "wait till overlord is as far away as possible before purifying".    Once you've opened the tile (and surrounding region) for, say, an amp tower or whatever..... that's it.  Your interactions with that tile (and often, a large surrounding area) are completely done, there's nothing else there.   It's now entirely dependant on Demonaica's whims as to how long the effect from that special tile will last, wheras previously, that desert section, as well as it's position, and exits/entrances connected to it, among other variables, would remain important BECAUSE that tower was there, and once it was smashed, you'd then have all of those things factoring into when you need to go into that section again to repair it, and just how you'd go about getting in there.

And the strategy with the survivors seems to be very similar.... get them as far away as possible, and then sit on farm/factory as long as they can.    Wait for the overlord to come to that side of the map, rush to the other side, and more waiting.    Even the purifying seems to be like this.

Not to mention, so far, it's not as engaging as before.   I'm not all that far into my current game yet, but there've already been a good number of turns where I end up simply doing nothing at all with them, and just moving onto the next platformer section.   There just arent really much in the way of options now.   It's mostly either farm, or factory, and even when it comes to revealing those tiles, you just do them when the boss is on the other side of the map.


A big part of what I thought made the strategic part of the game so good before was the way that all of the different tile types worked, and the fact that once they started getting smashed, you had to make lots of decisions on what to rebuild, what to prioritize, what to get your guys moving towards.   The majority of this seems to be gone at this point.

Now, I do get that this system might not be finished, but again, these are just some basic impressions I've had of it.   It just seems to me that, at least for now, the strategic part went from "complicated and interesting, with lots of choices and consequences" to "Kinda simple, just stay as far away from overlord as possible, most tiles can be ignored once revealed".     The reasons to split up survivors also doesnt really seem to have increased all that much.   I've been just keeping them in two blobs so far, one that sits on farms, one that sits on factories.  Rarely, some random guy might split off into a third group to build something, but currently this is pretty rare.   Only rescued one survivor so far. 


There's also the problem of what happens when some of these get wrecked.... like the amp towers or whatever, if those are smashed.... that's it.   They're done.   The only option is to hope to find another soon.    I'm thinking also that the problem of kiting the overlord might still be here, as well;  this is likely possible by specifically choosing areas to purify in order to lure him over there.  If I find a city full of houses and factories, I simply dont reveal any of it until he's off on the other side of the map.   And even then.... only reveal SOME of it.   Once he goes over there to smash that, then purify something on the other side where he was before.   He goes back over there, and THEN I might reveal more of that city.   So on and so forth.

And once things are wrecked, depending on the area type, you might get an entire section of the map that suddenly has no point.   The marshy areas you can build farms in, and the abandoned cities are the ones that can remain useful, but many other "biomes" may as well not exist anymore once they've been fully revealed/stomped. 



Anyway, that's some thoughts on that based on what I've seen of it so far.    Do post your own thoughts on it here as well, I'm interested to see what some of you think of the whole thing.

10

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Some thoughts on the current state of the game (and why I've stopped playing)

« on: January 08, 2013, 01:43:43 AM »

So, I've been meaning to do a big feedback post for awhile now, so I figured I'd go ahead and do one.

Unfortunately, this isnt going to be the positive one I thought I'd be doing.


For the time being, I've pretty much stopped playing this;  which is a shame, as it was great right up until this point.

My problem:  The whole controls & angled shots thing.    The vast majority of the slices, and almost *all* of the spells, as well as enemy patterns, seem to be balanced around the fact that you had the angled shots to work with.    With it reduced to 4 way, most spells go from "pretty good" to "utterly worthless".    The first tier of spell classes, for instance.    Forgician is sorta OK.   And one of the others has a snake spell (I'll get to that in a moment here....).   The other 8 though, currently, are horrible.   And I'm expecting that this will be continuing into the other tiers, since there are many spells, but only so many spell TYPES, and right now, the only ones I've found to be of use are the snakes, waves (like the one Forgician has), and seekers, because these are capable of either A: going at alternate angles, thus allowing them to HIT something that nearly every other spell type simply cannot hit, or B: hitting an enemy that is using alot of heavy forward fire, blocking everything else (the wave shot can do this).

I'm going to show an example of the problem here:



This illustrates a situation that's not just common right now, but ABSURDLY common.   I ran into this one multiple times within the next 7 minutes or so, and it's just as bloody aggravating every single time.   The *only* area type where this might not happen is surface areas, the ones with the wind generators (and even then, it still can, and indeed did, happen in those).   Caves, buildings, towers, are going to have many problems with this because of how cramped they are.   In the situation up in that screenshot, I have no options, aside from standing there with a seeker spell (which cannot break the slug's shots), and just firing..... over..... and over..... and over...... and over...... and over...... and over again, having to get lucky each time to hit the thing (and doing very little damage every single time).   Of the 5 spell classes available to me, there is no other spell capable of hitting this enemy..... except certain specific ammo spells.   Ammo spells, though, are meant to deal with tough situations and dangerous, powerful foes.... using one to bypass what is actually just a design problem is a real waste, and surely, it's not the way the game was designed to work.   And even then, I *cannot* hit with any of the available ammo spells without first crashing through multiple slug bolts to get in range.

And it's not the fault of the slug's pattern, either.   Really, ANY enemy with a ranged attack, in that type of slice, is currently presenting the same problem.   You either have a snake spell, or a seeker, or you have to crash into it and smack it with an ammo shot, or just outright leave the area and find somewhere else and hope to get lucky in the slices that are chosen.   And heck, if that one had been one of those squids with the blue shots, I dont think even the seeker spell would work;  I would HAVE to crash through and ammo-blast it, because none of my current sets have a snake spell.

And it sure as heck isnt just that one slice!   There are *lots* of them.   So freaking many.   

A four-way style of attack simply doesnt work very well with this type of design.   Look at other games that use pure 4-way firing (or even 2 way, in the case of something like Megaman).  The Megaman series, the original Metroid, Cave story.... notice with these, that they DO NOT HAVE ANGLED SECTIONS  (or have very, very, very few).  Not only that, they're generally very lacking in cramped corridors;  the design of these games is very, very open, because that's what works with that control/firing style.  You do still have to aim your shots in those games, by being on the proper vertical/horizontal level, but it works because you have the room to do so.   This game, most of it, is very NOT open.  Alot of cramped, complicated areas with tons of platforms and walls.   There's nothing wrong with that, but.... right now, with this change, it doesnt work.   Those slices were created with the game's previous balance, and now, they just dont match what it turned into.   I also think the caliber system doesnt entirely work with this current style either.

Now, obviously, it's technically possible to beat that slug without getting killed.   But there's only two ways of doing it, either standing there and firing slow-moving seekers over and over and hoping something happens, or crashing right into the damn thing and ammo blasting it.   These both are examples of "fake difficulty" (look it up on TVTropes), which, previously, did not really exist in this game..... but now, it seems to be EVERYWHERE.   And both solutions simply dont fit how the combat is designed to work.

I remember something that one of the devs said (forget which one) regarding this game versus the previous one.  In the previous one, since the overall design was so.... er.... "wide", it was possible to change, add, or outright remove entire game mechanics and such, without completely wrecking the balance and playability.  Yet with this game, everything was designed from the start to work together as a cohesive unit, and changing/removing even just one thing could shatter it.   I feel this is exactly what has happened; a major, core element.... the 8-way firing.... was changed/reduced rather dramatically, and because of this, tons of other things that were designed around the specific balance that the original system used, have now changed/broken.    The only way to fix it is either to put it back, or really really dramatically change almost all of the spell sets currently in the game, or a great, great many of the slices (which would ALSO lead to less interesting areas, if the "open" style from games like Cave Story were to be used in a procedural way; the complexity of the current areas is what keeps them interesting).



Now, I dunno how many, if any, other players here will agree with me on this one.    But these are my honest thoughts about it, after spending some time testing and pondering the whole thing.   For all I know also, it might be less of an issue on lower difficulties (I'm on Hero now);  I cant play on those though, because easy games tend to put me to sleep.   And really, I shouldnt have to switch to a lower difficulty because of situations like the one up above.   


Not to mention.... this almost seems like something that I see REALLY often with console games, which is developers pandering to an audience simply because that audience cant handle difficulty, or things that take effort.   Look at fighting games, for instance.   I know *alot* of people that hate almost the entire genre..... except Smash Bros.    Why?   Because the games are complicated, and more specifically, the CONTROLS are complicated..... all those moves and specials and combos..... and are hard to learn, as opposed to Smash, which is *instantly* learnable and requires almost no effort.   Yet, if those other fighters were changed, and thus, simplified.... they wouldnt be the games that they are now, and wouldnt be GOOD like they are now.  The difficult controls in those are a part of the price of the gameplay being the way it is;  if you want to play one of those, you have to bite the bullet and spend some time practicing and learning it.    I dont at all think the guys at Arcen here are the type to do that sorta thing on purpose (whereas many console devs WILL do it on purpose, and there's tons and tons of examples of this), but still, that's the feeling I get from it.



Ok, that there, is enough rambling from me, hah.   I hate to sound so incredibly negative, and I do hope I havent somehow insulted or offended anyone here;  if I have, it wasnt my intention.    But I think feedback of this sort is important, so I figured I'd write it all up, and see what happens.   For the time being though, I'm going to put the game aside, much as I hate to.   I have next to no patience to begin with, so dealing with stuff like the example up there is..... well, it's only going to get things launched at the wall in the end, heh.     I'm hoping this fact will change somehow;  I've been praising this game since Alpha started, and all of the good ideas that make it up still remain pretty darned great.   It's just that the balance of the game has now been punted off a cliff and exploded with a nuke, so.... yeah, I'll just stop for now.

11

Game Development / Remember the old PC game "Jetpack"? Well, sequel coming.....

« on: August 05, 2012, 08:39:50 AM »

.....and it has a kickstarter going, which appears to be nearly funded.    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adept/jetpack-2  for anyone interested.  There's still a few (not many) slots to get into the beta left, as of the time that I am posting this.

I expect that some people that frequent these forums are likely going to know about the old Jetpack game.   An old DOS platformer in wonderfully pixel-tastic VGA graphics.  Levels were always just a single screen.... sorta like Lode Runner, and sorta like the new game that Arcen is working on actually.... and your little guy could run around, jump, climb ladders, the usual, but also had a jetpack that could allow him to fly, provided you had fuel, as well as a "phase gun" sorta thing..... think the way Lode Runner let you dig at bricks, where they'd vanish for a bit but then come back, that's how it works in this, but you have more freedom with it in this game. 

If you HAVENT played this, seriously, just go play it, like, now.  The original is really easy to find, and it is SO worth it.   

One of the best features about the game though was it's excellent level editor. Even without the ability to trade levels back then.... as such a thing was utterly unheard of, this being well before the Internet really took off.... it was still all sorts of fun to make a pile of levels just to challenge yourself and have fun with it.  This is the big feature that most players remember.

The developer seems to have set up a big site for the game, which will allow for level trading;  you can actually see some of this already there, as well as a little test thingie that lets you screw around with the current (unfinished) editor and get a taste for what that's like.  Having a chance to REALLY mess with it though is going to require beta access however.   This is the same developer that made the original, too.


I already tossed $40 at it myself, as this one was a total no-brainer for me, prompting a reaction akin to just chucking money at the screen and hoping something happens, hah.   I had a look at the editor too (there's a fully-made level there that you can mess with, as well as actually test), and really, I'm already impressed by what little I've seen.


Anyway, I figured I may as well mention this here, some of you might take an interest in this.   I know I just cant freaking wait to hop into the beta myself.  As if I dont already have enough awesome indie-game goodness lately!


I apologize too if this topic is in the wrong place, I wasnt sure if I should put it here or in "off-topic", so do feel free to move it if needed.

12

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / About spell diversity

« on: July 12, 2012, 06:52:57 PM »

So, this was something I wanted to bring up here..... spell diversity.


I dont mean the selection of spells... there's a pretty good number of them, and they're all different.    I mean, instead, the idea of encouraging the player to USE more of them.   As opposed to just picking 2 spells and always using just those.

I personally find that the game is more fun this way, and also that the updated mechanics (ingredient searching, missions-for-spells, stuff like that) all is tailored to the idea of the player grabbing/using lots of different spells.

Now, part of this is I think some spells are a little OP, or just too easy to use.... Ball Lightning, for instance.   Many things arent hard to take out by JUST firing that at them.  Light Orb is another one that's similar.   But I think all of the "straight shot" spells fall into this category at least somewhat.

Not to mention, some spells are a little..... well, "obtuse" may be the right word.   The sort of thing where it's difficult to figure out what they're even FOR.   I've been using Summon Tornado alot lately, after finding some genuine practical uses for it.... but it took quite awhile for me to figure that out.   It seems that quite a number of spells are this way (Gold boomerang for example.... I really just cant find a good use for this one);  and the straight-shot spells being so easy to work with does not encourage the player to experiment with the funkier ones, which just further restricts their use.

And some of the game mechanics do break down at least a bit, if you're not using a wide variety of these.   The ingredients, for example.  Some players are going to find that certain ingredients are COMPLETELY useless to them, aside from unlocking a couple of the "craft only" spells.   Look at Charred Amber, for example.   Charred Amber is used in:  Gold Boomerang, Ride the Lightning, Lightning Rocket, Storm Fist, and Summon Tornado.   For most players, most of the time..... this ingredient is not going to be of any use.   You need it to unlock Ride the Lightning/Lightning Rocket, but you need this only once;  Gold Boomerang is so funky that it's currently pretty useless, so dont need it for that.... Storm Fist isnt really meant as an attack;  it's used for propulsion, and doesnt really need to be upgraded once gotten; and Tornado is another rather odd spell that many players arent going to know what to do with.   For ME, specifically, I still need this ingredient since I am indeed using Tornado alot.   But for most players..... after unlocking those couple of spells exactly ONCE, finding this ingredient afterwards is gonna be like finding more wood platforms.... you just dont NEED it.     The fewer spells the player uses, the more this is the case.    This affects world-map missions as well.   Less spells, means less desire to actually DO those.    Same with the dispatch system.... it's less and less useful as you need less and less types of ingredients.

Also, as someone else in a different topic pointed out.... the game really does seem at it's best when you have a BUNCH of goals to go after at any one time.    I use alot of different spells, so at each "level", I'm gonna have a big pile of different goals I want to go after, some of which may change depending on the RNG.   This, to me, is interesting and fun.   But for someone that is only using 2-3 straight shot spells and a shield, this is very much not going to be the case.   Heck, with the auto-levelup of the rarer spell gems, it can be like, well, beat one lieutenant, and BAM all 4 of your spells level up because they were all rare types and they're the only things you use..... now you're instantly ready to fight the NEXT lieutenant.  Thus the game's pacing falters.


So, this to me is a bit of an issue currently.... I thought I'd make a topic and bring this up, and see if we cant get some suggestions going here, and I wouldnt mind seeing what the devs have to say about it too.    What can be done to encourage the player to use more than just a few spells?


EDIT:  Also, I dont mean that any spells need replacing or anything like that.   Moreso working with what already is there, making them more desirable.

13

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Citybuilding, and placement

« on: July 10, 2012, 01:11:40 AM »

Quick post detailing the one problem I still have with the current city-building system, which is, that the placement still really doesnt matter much.

Now I know there are bonuses for certain region types, depending on the actual building.  Lumbermancy buildings go in the forests, for example.   The problem is..... that's all there is to it.  There's no real strategy/planning/thinking involved.  If I've got a building that goes in the desert, well, dont matter where the desert is or how much of it there is or which tile I choose; just walk over, slap one down randomly, and bam, full building bonus.

This means that I could, say, have my settlement on one side of the continent, right, and maybe a few buildings near it..... but if I were to walk aaaaaaaalllllllll the way across the continent.... maybe even to a seperate island.... and slap a building there, it'd be still "part of the city", despite making absolutely no sense whatsoever.   It'd look like the sort of building only a crazed hermit would live in and wouldnt connect at all to the settlement, and sure as heck wouldnt look like part of a city..... but it'd still WORK.

Pretty much the ONLY restriction with this is the wind shelters and the area they open up..... and that's about it.   Within those boundaries..... and it's not that hard to unlock huge tracts of land with those..... you can just plop buildings anywhere and you have a "city".


My thoughts for this were something along these lines:   Have a rule that any new building needs to be within 2 or 3 tiles of another building, in order to A: work at all, or B: get the full effect.   Whichever seems to work out the best.   If B:, you could say, have the building's effectiveness reduced by half or something, if it's not close enough to other buildings.    This would all mean that placement..... AND planning/strategy/whatever would both matter, for this system.   Yet at the same time on lower difficulties, for those that dont want to deal with it really, you could still mostly ignore this part.

This is basically what I was kinda hoping to see with the citybuilding system right from the start, as it makes the shape of the continent and placement of individual area types and regions really matter, from a strategic point-of-view.   As it is currently, it's still pretty mindless.



Mantis thingy here:   http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=8877

14

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / An idea regarding new uses for Ores (opal, sapphire, etc.)

« on: June 22, 2012, 06:35:05 AM »

I already worked up a Mantis report for this, so I'm not going to repeat what I typed there, just copy and paste:

Ores like Sapphire or Citrine or whatever, currently seem to be nowhere near as important as they should be; they're pretty much THE reason to go into caves most of the time (unless you're looking for survivors, which is the other good reason), but the vast majority of the time.... you simply dont need any more of them. Spells have very low costs in terms of how many of these stones they need, and a quick 5-10 minutes in any cave can give you so many of any one ore (sometimes more than one type!) that you cant possibly spend all of them in creating spells on that continent. Very often when I finish a continent, I'll have like, 50 extra of some of these stones, simply because there's no use for them.

This means that the player really only needs to enter caves during the earliest part of any given continent; they can just gather some ores while searching for survivors, and then there just isnt any real reason to go back into the caves after this; not even for things like granite or whatever, which can be found easier in places like the Lava Flats.

My idea was, that instead of doing something like increasing the ore cost of spells.... which would probably just annoy people.... make these more desirable by providing alternate crafting uses. You could, for example, craft Guardian Scrolls of various types: Spend, say, 30 Citrine, and you could craft a Moderate Wrath of Air. That number (or somewhere around there anyway) really wouldnt take that long to get at all (particularly if the player also does Boss Delve missions!), but would take some work, so it wouldnt reduce the usefulness of getting the same scrolls from missions.

Another very similar use might be to use these to UPGRADE scrolls you already have; this might provide another way to get major/potent scrolls, which currently are often very rare, and very hard to use, and very dependant on which buildings you happen to have.... there's so much luck involved with these that they just end up never being used (and honestly, I rarely even see them). So being able to stick, ah, I dont know, 40 ores onto some scroll or whatever, to advance it from Moderate to Major (or whatever), would not only give another use for the ores, but would offer other ways to get these scrolls. Choice of WHICH ones to upgrade would also make the "luck" bit of these higher scrolls a bit less of a problem, since the player could choose which scrolls to upgrade based on which buildings they have access to.

And a good thing about all this, is this mechanic would remain completely optional: At no point would the player HAVE to spend a bunch of time in caves getting ores. But it would make doing so a useful option.


This is something I've been thinking about for awhile;  I know that building stashes are an issue that's brought up alot, in terms of them not being very important right now, but I honestly feel that caves & gem rooms are currently even less important.  You simply dont need very many ores at all, and they're SO easy to get.  I always end up with TONS of them, and there's no use at all for them.  And there's little other reason to venture into caves, so..... yeah.

That, and the difficulty of finding/using high level scrolls has always bothered me.  I dont think I've used a major/potent even once yet!

Thought this might be a good idea in relation to both issues, figured I'd post it here, see if anyone has any thoughts on this.


Also, the mantis link:  http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=8648

15

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Damage and scaling of explosive trap items (Bear traps/barrels)

« on: June 07, 2012, 07:32:03 AM »

Related mantis link:   http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=8466


Mostly, I'm making a topic to A: get it noticed, and B: see if anyone else has any input on this one.    I use bear traps alot on various types of ground foes (and even sometimes on aerial enemies that get low to the ground, like eagles or worms), and while they're pretty useful, the Explosive version and the Mossy Barrels currently just arent.

Instead of retyping all this though, just gonna copy-paste what I put in the mantis thingy:

"Specifically, explosive bear traps, and the Mossy Barrels.

Mostly, these dont actually seem to scale with the continent tier; they do decent damage against tier 1 enemies, but on any higher tier, they do very little.

Testing these on continent tier 3, against Raptors, which are weak to fire, I dropped an explosive bear trap, and two mossy barrels; Raptor crashes into it, everything explodes, and the thing took at most 1/10th damage, if even that.

The Mossy Barrels in particular perhaps could also do with a damage boost; it's not easy to get these things in large numbers, and they take a bit more setup than the bear traps, requiring being used in tandem with an explosive bear trap, or being hit with a spell after being dropped. Since they're difficult to get AND quite difficult to use, it seems like they should be doing pretty massive damage; perhaps boost these to make them more desirable?"

Also, the difficulty I'm at is Master Hero, and I'm on the first continent, though with an "expert" start so it's the one where Lava Flats and Deep areas start showing.


I'd had this thought a number of times before, but I wanted to experiment with these a bit before I made a Mantis issue or forum topic on it.   Did that, so here it is.