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1

Skyward Collapse Strategy Discussion / Building resource dependency list

« on: May 24, 2013, 03:10:57 AM »

Second version now uploaded. I have included all the building names and moved some of the icons around to increase clarity.

- The general food section on the left, dependent on wood.
- The weapons section along the top, dependent on wood and iron (iron itself builds offon stone).
- The luxuries section along the bottom and bottom right. Based on clay->potter->seer progression, diamond->jeweller progression, and moonstone -> sunstone progression, which are generally more complex.

The pdf is in the spirit of old boxed PC games where they give you a convenient tech tree sheet to work with. If you have any particular feedback on visibility and usability, that would be appreciated.

2

Skyward Collapse Strategy Discussion / Unit resource dependency list

« on: May 23, 2013, 01:15:16 PM »

I've been waiting for 1.000 to post this...

Here is a short summary of unit resource requirements, divided into structures that you need in your town and structures that can be shunted off to other towns.

Greek

Barracks (all units require:)	Butcher.	Pig farm.
- Ekdromos	Bakery, Carpenter, Smithy.	Wheat farm, Iron mine, Woodcutter.
- Peltast	Smithy, Well.	Iron mine.
- Prodromos	-	Ranch.
- Xiphos	Bakery, Smithy.	Wheat farm, Iron mine.
= = =
Archery range (all units require:)	Butcher.	Sheep farm.
- Toxotes	Bakery, Carpenter, Fletcher.	Wheat farm, Woodcutter.
- Akontistai	Carpenter, Smithy, Well.	Iron mine, Woodcutter, Well.
- Lithovoloi	-	Rock quarry.
- Sfendonitai	Smelter.	Iron mine.
= = =
Siege workshop (all units require:)	Bakery.	Wheat farm.
- Trojan horse	-	Rock quarry.
- Battering Ram	Smelter, Well.	Iron mine.
- Oxybele	Smelter, Butcher.	Iron mine, Pig farm.
- Siege Tower	Carpenter, Brewery.	Woodcutter.

Norse

Barracks (all units require:)	Butcher, Smithy.	Pig farm, Iron mine.
- Beserk	Carpenter, Brewery.	Woodcutter.
- Hersir	Well.	-
- Huscarl	Carpenter.	Woodcutter, Ranch.
- Marauder	-	-
= = =
Archery range (all units require:)	Butcher.	Sheep farm.
- Archer	Bakery, Carpenter, Fletcher.	Wheat farm, Woodcutter.
- Axe-thrower	Bakery, Carpenter, Smithy.	Wheat farm, Iron mine, Woodcutter.
- Longbowman	Carpenter, Fletcher, Deer Park	Woodcutter.
- Shotput	Smelter.	Iron mine, Rock quarry.
= = =
Siege workshop	(not all use the same resources.)
- Arsonist	Butcher, Bakery, Well.	Pig farm, Wheat farm.
- Catapult	Butcher, Carpenter.	Ranch, Woodcutter, Rock quarry.
- Ballista	Butcher, Bakery.	Sheep farm, Wheat farm.
- Mortar	Bakery, Smelter, Brewery.	Wheat farm, Iron mine.

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Skyward Collapse LPs/AARs / [alpha feedback] Notes after one game.

« on: May 04, 2013, 03:08:43 PM »

 I think the combat is generally enjoyable, notwithstanding missing unit animations. I'm less sure about having Gods sit around being a tower of death, unless goaded into action (in the near future). The tutorial was easy enough after a few initial trip-ups with the resource chain.

 My impression with the bandit system is both good and bad. In most cases, they spawn, kill something (a building or two if they're very lucky), and then gets defeated. However, there are cases such as Dark Elf spawns who live a many turns trying to convert a resource tile (not very successful for some reason), defeating melee untis that attacks, and be a general nuisance. It's not bandit-like nor elf-like.

 Maximising the score for me required that I allow the Norse (who's been trailing for 95% fo the game) to completely overrun the Greeks just before the end. Deciding when to push for this and then preserving a Greek remnant seems to be a deep decision... Also, given that points are scored for building destruction, I'm tempted to get up games with boundary villages that flip red and blue constantly to rack up the score.

 I'm not sure what the map-styles will be like in beta, but they will need more randomising elements.

 On unit stat/requirement balancing and differentiation:
 I think this is something we'll need to talk about properly soon on Mantis. I'm getting a feeling that the units aren't quite different enough. The stats point to different roles, yes, but I don't necessary see how in an advanced economy a pure army might be better than a varied army. In a mixed army, you also get a more distributive resource chain, so when an odd chokepoint occurs another unit from the list can be produced. As it currently stands, when all your unit require lots of bacon each, you really have to narrow yourself down on the resource tiles (which isn't good for future flexibility if somebody happens to pick up immunity to X).

 People will need to play this a few times to know enough though.

 Overall, cautiously positive.

4

AI War / When will "friendly" roaming enclave AI be fixed?

« on: August 31, 2012, 10:54:26 AM »

I've been waiting for some classic Neinzul friends for a long time. ^^

5

AI War / Zenith Medic repair beams

« on: August 28, 2012, 01:37:39 PM »

Do Zenith Medic Frigates increase their repair beam numbers with mark? They currently have a repair rate of 1 across all marks, so I thought either the repair rate or the repair beam number should increase as the mark increases so that players are encouraged to unlock higher marks.

This can go with the decreasing DPS issue in the Mantis if those frigates end up being too powerful.

6

AI War / Wiki: seeking input on a ship immunity table in the wiki

« on: July 25, 2012, 06:50:01 PM »

Here is a draft version we wrote up on the wiki:

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Ship_Stats_Table

The idea is that players can quickly lookup what fleetships are immune to what other things that are out there. Having a quicklist of who you can send against ion-cannons is very useful, say, and discovering that a whole subset of ships cannot be Tractored is another.

The ship stats such as HP and damage is already available as a csv export- so we will not be doing that.

Now, this sort of thing would be better actually in the game, because creating and updating this beast on the wiki is somewhat difficult. Therefore, we solicit your opinion on whether you'll actually use it often, and whether you can help building it.

7

AI War / Thankyou Cookie Monster!

« on: July 10, 2012, 06:10:39 AM »

I just want to emphasise the opportunities that our friend can give you. Today I offered it an all-you-can-eat buffet courtesy of the AI.

One picture says it all:

8

After Action Reports / Gentle stroll through the wilderness

« on: May 29, 2012, 09:34:54 AM »

It's been a while since I played AI War... We'll have a slow play through of an easy 8/7 game on a realistic map. The settings are rather simple:

(Everything on 4/10:)
Human colony rebellions/marauders/resistance fighters to populate the galaxy a little.
Traders and Dysons.
Broken Golems Hard
Spirecraft Hard

Schizophrenic/Reveal AI Types.
AI 1 (red): 8 random medium/easier
AI 2 (yellow): 7 random all non-technologist with Avenger, Hybrids, Advanced Hybrids.

= = =
 Log 05.26.215033.
 I find myself awake, again, at a murky hour. That is, if it's meant to be night according to the acclimatisation protocols. Not that the body cares - humans are biologically incapable of accepting the wildly varying daylight cycles of a star-bound traveller.
 The accommodations of Aria's Gaze are well-rigged to the rhythms of its occupants. As I sat up and looked around, the confines of the room slowly fade away to reveal a strange vista of the ship's surrounding. The panels were not cheap to install, but I've always liked to tinker with each transient home so as to remove as much of the ship from my physical senses as possible.



 An unfamiliar purple gas giant, labelled Wiglau in ghostly green. Apparently this floating junk is stranded somewhere not even I have been to. A name that recalls... something. Awry. Buried within a different life.

 Must summon up courage to call a QPA. *grumble, grumble* I hope this scenic route was just a warp anomaly.

 (log end)

 = = =

 Log 05.29.130914.
 Took me several cycles to adjust to our new situation, and calm my emotions. Let us be brief, for the sake of sanity (and dinner, not enough time right now):

 

Judgement has befallen humanity.

 Even worse, I've been recalled into service. 'Supreme-Sub-admiral-of-the-yadda-yadda-coalition'. If only they paid me for every letter in my title, although credit doesn't mean much when this particular corner of universe has been cleansed of human life.
 *sigh*
 Perhaps it is fortunate now that I have no known family to grieve over.

 ...but I will cease my old-man grumbling. In between the last log and now, I've come to learn of:
 - an alliance of embittered foes (one that I swore I'd never see for as long as I lived),
 - a hostile-takeover from creations who learned that they were in all respects superior to their creator/captors,
 - above creations being runway AIs that most of us knew nothing about,
 - and subsequent plans to fight back.

 With what? Obsoleted equipment, and whatever designs that could be smuggled away from both sides. Our assets are two generations older than acceptable! Rule of thumb: if it's older than you... We also have a secret weapon, but I'm ashamed to admit that the same ingenuity of my colleagues who pushed out the "Space Tank" also named it. I prefer a more functional "assault platforms".

 Privately, my plans are to push towards Nomas (sequestered the top-right quadrant) so that I can see what's left of the system I was born under. The other big-wigs are not to know that, but I've convinced them that there's a couple of Conclave research facilities hidden on the way that I might have a personal chance at cracking into. Truth is, I'm not sure what they've done to my projects in the past decade.

 I'll transfer myself to the Nostrildammus, a dedicated hacker-ship, for some glorified safe-cracking.
 (log ends)
 = = =
 Log 05.30.110914.
 Fresh back in HQ from my recent expedition, but I must start from the beginning.

 The band of unlikely heroes push "north", and reclaim Garasnodark and Wonuyar. It made sense that Doomsday Protocols chose this quadrant for the restart - obsolete equipment are far more resistant to rogue AI infiltration. Probably less appealing too, if individual entities had a sense of ascetics.
 Even so, contact with the rogue AIs seem surprisingly weak. Small forces of hundreds of ships, equally as poor as ours, probed our defenses. For us, at least, it was inconceivable that an intelligent individual should leave humanity with a chance for retribution. Why have they changed so much? The combat vessels seem to have lost much of the combat routines I was once familiar with, and captured remains confirm that they were actually downgraded.

 Curious. I must confer with what remains of R&D on both sides.  Luckily, scout drones have found what I was hoping to find in the systems Ilde and Andocha. Abandoned Research Stations - projects that didn't quite take off and were moth-balled. They will be of service now. The Nostrildammus will be covered by cloaking and protective fire while I do the hard yards:
 

Plasma-sieges are my favourite engines of destruction. Note to self: Must not let opinions cloud future judgement.

 And now we have caught up to the present. I must go to debriefing.
 (log ends)
 
 = = =
 Log 05.30.180914.
 Now that I have analysed for myself the AIs' tactics, namely throwing individuals away like ants... I'm beginning to have suspicions. West-command have transmitted images of a novel craft from Murdjutooth and Zonvu, which they subsequently annihilated.



 It was escorted, and was apparently defending the local orbital command. This confirms the debrief I've just had with my equivalents in the IPPR. Gareth, one of the spokespeople, explained that they were experimenting with AI-Neinzul hybirds. A Neinzul enclave is a meta-organisms made by its many individuals, and that emergent behaviour could translate to better organisation in AI cooperation. It was suggested that the emergent activities of a Neinzul hive could perhaps be better understood by AIs adapting to their "mode of existence", than us who are individuals.

 We suspect that somehow the idea of organisation has filtered into their primary system and transformed their AI. We know that individual AIs have been hard-coded to be ultimately controllable by humans - perhaps through Neinzul-like organisation, they can circumvent some of the parameters.

 It is time to get back to work. Command has updated me with the latest on our overall front:

 We have located centres of activities in Urvald and Raockash where front-line equipment have been stationed. It appears as though they know enough to try to protect their own Data Centres. We must either neutralise them or contain them so as to get through and sabotage their infrastructure. Incidentally, infrastructure uncountable resources in the making...

  Suicide probes have also identified interesting structures amongst the strongholds. Are they related to the hybrids?

 (log ends)

9

AI War / Balances: Zenith Electric Bombers and Zenith Chameleons

« on: March 21, 2012, 08:04:19 AM »

I'm almost finished with the fleet-ships now, and have come up to the different zenith bombers that feel somewhat quizzical. I've included the Normal/Normal stats below and also given the Bombard as a comparison.

Code: [Select]

WaveName HullType CapHP Armor Speed CapM+C CapEner Range APierce ShipCap BaseDPS Bonus BonusNames MaxDPS

Bombers Polycrystal 15092K 1200 76 156800 9800 4000 0 98 78400 6 Heavy;Artillery;CommandGrade;UltraHeavy;Structural 470400
Zenith Bombards Artillery 9072K 300 44 211200 9600 33000 20000 24 144000 2 Heavy;UltraHeavy;Structural 288000

Z Chameleons CloseCombat 19894K 300 76 137200 4900 7000 0 98 130666 2.4 Heavy;Neutron;UltraHeavy;Structural 313587
Elec Bombers Neutron 9975K 600 50 83600 4750 6400 0 19 120333 3.2 UltraHeavy;Structural;Polycrystal 385060

Missile Frigs Artillery 15092K 300 44 117600 19600 10000 0 98 94080 6 Light;Neutron;Swarmer;UltraLight;Refractive;Composite 564480


The Chameleons, I don't see their cloaking as having any practical function since they de-cloak to move, de-cloak to attack and remain de-cloaked while attacking. Players don't normally "ambush" enemies except in Wormhole situations where they'll get first strike anyway. They are stat-wise fine, but are really just Bomber-clones with fewer and weaker bonuses...

The Electric Bombers in player hands are severely handi-capped - while big, there isn't enough of them (I remember this being previously discussed) such they they don't really contribute their share of an unlock spot. Their counters, Missile Frigates, seem to be able to cream them anywhere and everywhere. Last time I used Electric Bombers, they were, um, too many eggs in one basket and got relegated to reserves (ion cannons being their worst bane).

Any opinions on the current state of these guys? Can/should we make them more interesting?
...like:
Elec Bombers. We could make it out to be half a starship in theory. Triple armour? Add Insta-kill immunity? Add other bonuses (Neutron,EMP-immune)? 
Chameleon. Allow combat-cloaking (muahaha) - i.e. can re-cloak while reloading, and therefore actually make it "unassailable while not moving" (of course, there are tachyon beams to decloak them).  Switch hull-type to Refractive so that it's also weak to Missile Frigates.

...switch one of these to polycrystal so Fortresses wouldn't be such a bore?

10

AI War / Spider Bots targeting

« on: March 11, 2012, 07:29:45 PM »

We see that Zenith Paralyzers have a new targeting algorithm to spread out their effects. Has this been applied to Spider Bots as well? The condition is a little different (if engine health  = 0), but similar principles should apply.

11

AI War Strategy Discussion / Cloaking guardians: making cloaking more standard in AI arsenal

« on: February 10, 2012, 01:42:34 PM »

I've been considering the idea of making anti-cloaking measures more appealing to the player. IMO, it's optimal to add a cloaking guardian and/or an offensive cloaking starship to the AI's default list. This way, you can potentially meet cloaked defenses that are not restricted to the cowardly stealth guardpost - a trivial speed bump that only requires spotting the m/c rock that *is dubiously unguarded*.

Consider the following ship:

Cloaking guardian, available from difficulty 7 upwards.
- HP: 2,000,000 * Mark.
- Speed 76 (equal to fighter/bomber. That is, as average as possible or encode an exo-wave/hybrid mechanic and allow it to recruit followers).
- Refractive hull (thematic). Possibly neutron. Something nice for acid-sprayers.
- 0 armour. Placeholder for armour re-balancing. Perhaps 3,000 if it's proving too small.
- *Not* cloaked itself (do NOTforce de-cloaker combat).
- Cloaking superbooster x50 * Mark (6,000 range). Radar dampening (8,500 range, just so it doesn't get sniped by bombards, etc.)
- Attack 10,000x8 per 6 sec, shell type, 7,000 range (something to give it a little bit of oomph+first strike against a bombing run)
- Attack Bonuses: Basically close-combat+medium+polycrystal like the fighter to again softly discourage bomber runs. Please not light, that's tachyon microfighters. Not composite, which are decloakers in general that die quickly already.
- Standard guardian immunities, perhaps immune to sniper fire.

- Standard player counter: missile frigates (damage bonus like acid-sprayers, but that's a potential issue for another day), but must close to radar dampening range.

NB: A cloaking assault starship version, might have weaker attacks, smaller HP, smaller boost range but has armour. Contrast cloaker-starship-II + flagship statistics.

NB: There is a second anti-cloaking counter in Sentinel frigates. Consider increasing its tachyon emission ranges to emphasise its multiple utility nature (currently 1,000 * mark). Are these supposed to be better at decloaking than scout starships??? This is to compensate for their combat philosophy and retreat range of 15,000 that doesn't help combat use.

Suggestions? Philosophically, I'm more inclined towards reducing the number of player-only technologies that have been developed post AI-takeover of the galaxy. Thematically, the AI would prefer to develop militarised versions of the human cloaked-starship rather than keep them as "civil" non-combat vessels.

= = = =
Edit: Mantis-link http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=5894

12

AI War / Save-scumming / Mastery of time-travel

« on: February 03, 2012, 06:47:13 PM »

Let me put it this way:
 "What do you mean, I'm not allowed time-mastery when the AI obviously have space-mastery?"

Anway, I wouldn't mind an iron-man mode - it's tempting to erase your mistakes as a Braid-lover.

13

AI War Strategy Discussion / Speed mods of logistics and Zenith ST manipulators

« on: January 27, 2012, 01:24:31 AM »

I read here and in the wiki that logistics command stations are meant to speed up allied forces and slow down enemies. However, the tooltips themselves say every command station has the ability to "double allied movespeed" (and this is true).

Looking at this briefly @ normal speed, I see that:
logistics I -> static +80 speed
logistics II -> static +120 speed
logstics III -> static +160 speed
Zenith ST -> static +20 speed (boosted by command stations to +40).

Given that ships already receive x2 movespeed in allied wells, the static increase of II above I isn't great, and we're limited to 6 for placement in central nodes.  So it would seem to me that the only real advantage to go past logistic I is the enemy slowing and prevent teleportation.

What kind of slowing do the logistic commands give per mark? Would the advocates of the Green CSes make a coment?

14

AI War / Spire Archives Uses

« on: October 19, 2011, 08:38:06 AM »

In my play-throughs, I'm inclined to think that benefits of taking over these archives are mostly mitigated by their location next to the AI homeworld. The only time one would clearly take it is when he has enough forces to take on the core planets, which usually means that I already have most of the knowledge I need, and want to take down both AIs so as to finish.
Waiting an extra 100 minutes for the archives at that point doesn't quite make sense: either I take over the homeworld (and possibly all the other core worlds too...) and live with increased AI progress while I prepare for the second AI, or neuter it and allow for the buildup. Even then, I could just go and take other worlds without aggravating the core worlds. So there isn't a strong benefit.

Are these intended as a bonus for players who don't/can't quickly leapfrog between the AI core worlds? Has anyone else thought differently and found them more useful?
= = =

1) Allowe Spire Archives to be placed anywhere, and cut its knowledge cap?
2) Increase its placement area to encompass both core worlds and worlds adjacent to core worlds?