Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Morslok

Pages: [1]
1
I see the negative graphics comments on RPS and think to myself, I know where you're coming from, because I felt similar at first, then I watched one of the trailers at 1080p on youtube. That's the real problem here, jpeg and youtube compression are ruining it for these people. Just tell them to watch some gameplay footage at 1080p and then see if they keep complaining. Or better yet, get them to try the demo version. I think it's great looking myself.

2
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Pre-release beta notes on the wiki
« on: September 10, 2011, 09:14:18 AM »
Vengeful ghosts sound scary... A good deterrent to just running straight into danger again and again (or sending others there).

3
Game Development / Tools and Directed Design in Games
« on: June 30, 2011, 03:38:39 PM »
I was musing on my chosen pastime and hobby recently, more specifically on the nature of game-play in modern video games.  I won't claim to have some sort of special pedigree when it comes to game design, however there is one thing in which I can be considered the highest expert in the world, and that is what I like.

What I was considering was tools in games.  When I say tools, I don't mean impolite people, and I don't mean hammers or screwdrivers (unless I do), what I mean is the things that allow the player to interact with the world.  Take a shooting game for instance. The basic tools we use to interact with the world in a shooter game are bullets.  Without firing bullets we cannot complete the game.  Sure, there may be a "use key" to interact with doors, or pick up guns, or use a med-kit (for those games that don't have a Player Character that heals while out of combat, that is).

So, while I was musing, I took a step back and looked at the big picture. From there, I was able to discern two different kinds of approach for dealing with tools in a game. The first is to give the player limited resources and a problem to fix with those resources. This is by far the more popular approach, in fact it is the approach taken by so many games that it seems ubiquitous. It is what we have come to expect from video games. Play a shooter, they will give you guns and enemies and say, "You must get to the end of the level." and so you say, "Okay! I know, I'll shoot the enemies with my guns!" Sometimes it feels like you're making the choice, other times the motivation seems shoehorned in.

The second approach to tools is to let the player choose which tools they want or need, and even to let them create these tools themselves. In a shooter, you can sometimes choose which gun to use, but for the most part they all just sling bullets, just with different rate of fire, damage, spread pattern, and even area of effect (as with explosives). How many shooters give you a crowbar? I know what you're thinking, but Gordon's trusty sidekick is really just a gun with limited range and unlimited ammo. What if you, as the person sitting there trying to think through the situation, wanted to simply go another route to get to the objective? There's a door over on the far wall, that will not open no matter what you do. What if you could gain access to a crowbar and break down the door, bypassing that part of the level, or even finding an entirely alternate path that deviates from the rest of the story as it would have happened if you had simply gunned down the opposition?

This, I think, is part of the appeal of a game like Minecraft. You are given obstacles to overcome (which some would argue are currently too small and easy), but you are also given infinite resources with which to overcome them.  You can kill all the skeletal archers in the dungeon you found, or you can block them in, dig under the room, and liberate the items from the chests without combat. Or you can block off that cave entirely and never come back. If you feel like digging, you can make a tool that will allow you to do so, and more efficiently than without it. If you want to engage in combat, you can make a tool for that as well, a sword for close combat or a bow for long range. If you want to explore, make yourself a boat for some sea-bound exploration or a map to record your progress. Want to make cool automated machines? Find some redstone and get creative.

Apologies for all the Minecraft references, but it's my best example for that end of the spectrum. Minecraft is my primary example of the second approach to tools, it's as far to that end of the spectrum as I have played, and many claim that it isn't a "game" because of how much direction it lacks.  And it's true to an extent, it is not a traditional video game, which are defined by their boundaries (or "genres") of interactions. There are boundaries in Minecraft, but not in any of the places you would expect in a traditional, genre-defined game, so all these types of games have created a new, what I like to call "anti-genre": Sandbox games.

Now, what all this brings forward as questions are things like, how far can you go in either direction? The limit for the first approach, the completely designer-driven-interaction experience, seems to me to be point and click adventure games. The only way to win is the way which the developer intended.  At the other end, well, it hasn't really been explored as far as it could yet, in my opinion. This kind of interaction, you could think of it as a game sitting on top of a simulation. The limits are what you can do with the game to alter the simulation. There HAS to be a game, the developer can't just make a simulation with no interaction and expect people to code their own controls, or fiddle with values directly. There HAS to be a simulation, otherwise any interaction is meaningless button pressing. The game and the simulation are both designed by the developer, through procedural means these elements can be made substantial, but there will always be some limits.  The limits are, time and imagination. Time, because things need to be implemented by the developer. Imagination, because nobody can think of everything. "Even the very wise cannot see all ends," according to Gandalf.

So, why post this here? Well, because I wanted to hear people's opinions about my musings, and this seems a mature enough setting to be able to come up with some good brainstorms, examples, points and counter-points. And because I would like to see how this particular continuum applies to A Valley Without Wind. I am a big fan of sandbox games, which are largely more towards the player-driven end of the spectrum, although some more than others (GTA-alikes like to be called sandboxes, but the story is set in stone and the missions usually are as well, they are basically shooter/racing games with an open world). I am excited by A Valley Without Wind, but I have to ask myself, is that because I see it in it's current, unfinished state and see some sort of dream game of mine in it? I am THE expert on what I like. Something tells me I will like this. But I have been let down in the past. I saw something in a game that was never there to begin with. What I want is to be able to choose my own path. To make my own choices in this world, to choose the items and spells my character brings on their adventures, to choose the direction I will walk, choose who to help and who to condemn and who to ignore, choose what to interact with, and only I will know the reason why I made that choice. Not because someone chose that thing for me to be able to do (although this is also necessary for all these things), but because I chose to do it. I already know this game will be towards the player-driven end of the spectrum, I just hope those interactions that are included by design will include the things that I will want to choose for my character(s) to do. I also enjoy the fact that Arcen Games doesn't hold the illusion that they CAN think of everything, which makes them more likely to include new player interactions suggested by the community in subsequent patches and expansions.

So, to the forum members with enough time and energy on your hands to read this, I hope you found something to take away from this massive wall of text.  And to Arcen Games, good luck, and I will try to remember, this is YOUR game, not mine.

4
Off Topic / Re: Stardock sold Impulse
« on: June 18, 2011, 11:48:05 AM »
A good indie diablo-style action RPG is Din's Curse. It takes the randomization to a whole new level, the towns are random, the people in the towns are random, the quests are random, and the dungeons are so random that I have rarely seen two that looked the same, let alone had the same number of levels. It also has mix-and-match classes. Got it a while back, and I definitely enjoy it more than Torchlight.

But the stand out feature is the dynamic nature of the gameplay. Basically, this game doesn't just give you quests and waits for you to do them, it gives you quests and if you don't do them quick enough there are consequences. The town could be attacked by monsters, everyone could be killed, even your quest givers. If you don't kill a bad guy soon enough he could start an uprising in the dungeon, increasing the number of monsters to fight and changing which monster types appear on a certain level of the dungeon. You can actually lose by having the town overrun with monsters. A boss monster could spawn in town.

Sorry to go off topic like that, I do use Impulse for some of my games, and I'm hopeful that they won't be turned completely into soulless corporate lackeys. However it is a possibility.

5
Off Topic / Re: Dwarfs!?
« on: May 29, 2011, 08:47:11 PM »
I've put a bit of time in to Dwarfs!? and I can say that it is a fun little diversion. You're an overseer for a little dwarf community and must ensure the survival of that community. It's somewhat strategic, there's a bit of micromanagement, but in general it's best to just let the little guys do their diggy hole thing. There's less than 10 ways to interact with the game, building walls, placing dynamite, making arrows for dwarfs to follow, turning existing dirt into stone so dwarfs can't dig through it, building outposts, and interacting with those outposts as well as the main building at the start. It seems simple when you start playing, but play an hour long arcade game and towards the end things can get out of hand VERY fast. Decent amount of fun for ten dollars, good time waster.

6
I'm unmetered and have plenty of space, but I don't want to wait for a demo to download for too long. For a full game I would wait for as long as I had to, since i already bought it.

7
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: How much is random?
« on: April 18, 2011, 08:50:38 PM »
Fair enough. Don't work too fast though, I hear carpal tunnel is not that pleasant.

8
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: How much is random?
« on: April 18, 2011, 06:57:25 PM »
I just wish you'd quit toying with me and take my money already. I REALLY want this game.

9
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Worlds
« on: February 08, 2011, 10:42:31 PM »
As I understand it, it is YOU, the player, that levels. So any NPC you take over will be your level. If you're at level 20, every new character you get will be 20. I don't think everything in the world is equal to your level, per se. I've already mentioned in some other thread how Oblivion does this quite wrong and makes leveling seem pointless since everything you fight will be the same as your level no matter where you go. I don't think AVWW is going to be that sort of equal leveling system, but it is going to have something whereby the world levels up with you.

I apologize, the terminology I used was perhaps not the best. I was trying to say that rather than keeping track of a player's level (which would then be different for each player on a multiplayer server) there is a "global" level that is tied directly to the world. x4000 has said that the monsters and such in the world will not level equally with this "global" level, but they will get slightly tougher the higher this level is. In each self contained world, you would never go back to level 1, all progress is saved and persistent within each world, even if that progress was not your doing, you reap the benefits.

So, in other words, yes, it is YOU, the player, that levels, and WHAT the player levels is the "global" level, not his own individual level, nor the level of the character he plays. Player progression, "global" progression, and character progression are one and the same, represented by the "global" level, which can never decrease, nor reset.

10
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Worlds
« on: February 08, 2011, 08:47:56 PM »
Hmm. Puzzled moment.

If the world levels, rather than the (current) character or the player, and if the difficulty level of challenges (which I'm assuming are related somehow to the current "world level") tend to increase to the east of your character's current location, then how is the world persistent if the world-level gets reset on character death?

In other words, if I explore enough places with one character to get the world up to (say) level 20, and then that character dies, can I ever return with a new character to those previously explored locations (I assume the answer is "yes"), and if I do, will the challenge level of those places remain at what they were for my previous character (implying world-persistence)? Or will those locations reset their challenge level to scale to my current character's longevity?

I'm not trying to pick holes here, I promise! :D It's just interesting to wonder how these unique systems might interact. I figure I'm missing a whole lot of information that hasn't been revealed yet -- looking forward to learning more when the time is right!

IIRC, x4000 said somewhere that character level transfers from character to character, so if your Lv 20 character dies, your new character is still Lv 20. I wish I remember which thread he said this in...

It was my understanding that the specific character that you play as does not level. The world levels instead. Each character has a different name, and there are different crafting classes, but other than that they are essentially the same once you take control.

11
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Some Thoughts on Design Elements So Far
« on: February 08, 2011, 06:02:52 PM »
But "exploration" has a much deeper, richer meaning: it's the mapping of any unknown system... the act of discovering how the dynamic systems of that gameworld function. Exploring systems of magic and even combat work the same way.

This actually reminded me immediately of Magicka. That game is basically about this sort of exploration of their magic system, and even the way that your results react with the results of other players. Pretty heavy stuff for a 10 dollar game. There definitely is something to be said for systems that are built on relatively few "atomic" parts (like the 8 elements in Magicka) that combine and react with each other in interesting ways that are fun to explore and find the limits of.  So, using Magicka as an example of this, there are 8 elements, which can be combined in any group of up to 5, which can then be used in any of 4 ways (on self, on target, on weapon, and on immediate area). They seem like small numbers: 8, 5, 4. However, using those small numbers, we find that there are a potential* possible 149,792 combinations for any magical spell. "Greater than the sum of its parts" indeed!

* This is not the actual number of spells in Magicka as some elements do not mix with others, i.e. electricity and water, or fire and frost. There are still a very large number of spells to be found in that game, however. You can check my math if you want (since I am by no means a math wiz and am probably wrong), here's what I did: (((8^1)+(8^2)+(8^3)+(8^4)+(8^5))*4)

12
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Worlds
« on: February 08, 2011, 05:34:22 PM »
"You" don't have anything outside of the specific server/world in question.  The world itself would have a level progress (which we call player level, but it's actually global for the world).  "You" also don't have any permanent characters, even within a given world, because one character dies and then you take over the next, etc.  So there's really nothing to be carried between worlds, or between multiplayer and single player, because everything is so tied into the world itself that it just doesn't make sense out of context.

Honestly I don't think that going back to level 1 is going to bother folks that much.  It's the loss of all the history of what you did, and the ways you shaped the world, that will be the bother.  That said, if you had to have a solo world and a world you play on with friends, I don't think that would be a tragedy by any stretch.  Each world would be different and would contain a unique and interesting history per that world.  If your friends have been playing multiplayer without you and got the player level there up to 20, and you join, then you're at level 20 with all the rest of them.  No need to play catch-up (except on equipment, to some extent).

Ooooooohhh. That makes so much sense, and I never would have thought of it. I'm glad you're making this game and not me.

I'm very excited about this game, have been since the initial press release. I will buy it as soon as you'll let me, and I hope you make a ton of money off it and turn it into "the only game you will ever need" (along with AI War).

13
A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Worlds
« on: February 08, 2011, 05:15:58 PM »
The situation on LANs ought to be such that really tons of players are supported no matter what is going on with bandwidth limits for individual servers on the Internet. :)

That sounds like a challenge to someone to have 100 or so of their closest friends LAN it up and get a screen of everyone in the same town. :D

The worlds generated by a multiplayer server would be entirely compatible with single player and vice-versa.  So you could play solo if you want without the server, then turn on the server for some co-op.  Though, you can also play via the server for solo if you want, it doesn't limit the players to 2+ for that (though why you'd want to if you never have more than one person would be a question -- but I digress).

Based on your statement that you would only ever want/need one world, where would our level progression stand in this multi-world server system? If I get to level X on single player, will I be able to carry that to a server? Or will I be back to level 1 in that world? If I go back to level one, isn't that a disincentive to play multiplayer at all (or at least to play in anything other than your own server)?

14
AI War / Re: AI War Beta 3.719, "And There Was Much Rejoicing," Released!
« on: October 19, 2010, 06:14:45 PM »
Rejoicing, indeed!  The zoom issues are fixed, and now I can play again without the annoyance of a broken zoom!  Huzzah!

15
AI War / Re: AI War 4 Beta 3.700
« on: October 02, 2010, 01:24:43 AM »
Installed and ran in Ubuntu 10.04 with Wine 1.3.3.

Didn't try actual game play, since it was a little jumpy, but that's probably just because this laptop is old.

Pages: [1]