Messages

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A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Just a note about what's going on with AVWW.

« on: September 09, 2012, 04:35:20 AM »

An entire gameplay revamp besides just the art revamp? Now this is interesting.

I never got into AVWW properly, because the whole game just felt like it was a shoehorned mess of many things, from different incompatible gameplay systems mashed together and the whole inconsistent art style that was mostly fueled with stock images from all over the world. It just didn't click, the whole thing was like trying to put a cube through the triangle slot.

But an art revamp means that the game will have a consistency in terms of the visuals, so thats a big step forward. I'm really curious to see what the gameplay overhaul will be like. This may just as well win me over to play AVWW again.

2

Game Development / Re: How does Arcen code its games? (Architecture wise)

« on: May 20, 2012, 04:45:34 PM »

We don't use any formal method, really.  But there are certain patterns Chris and I have learned in previous jobs and evolved on Arcen's projects, etc.

What patterns are they? I'm coincidentally currently reading about programming design patterns (Singleton, State, Factory and more), so it would be great to know what are relevant patterns one should learn for video game development.

Also C# ftw, I really like how that language is structured and how it guides the developer to type better code. I'll be using it with the Unity3D engine.

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Game Development / How does Arcen code its games? (Architecture wise)

« on: May 20, 2012, 01:38:27 PM »

Hi

I've been following how Arcen keeps updating AVWW at a rapid rate, sometimes incorporating big changes incredibly fast, got me wondering on what programming paradigm(s) is Arcen using to create its games?

By programming paradigms, I mean what kind of style of programming do you use to base the game's architecture upon? How do you organize it? Is it Component-based or Automata-based or something else?

I'm asking this because I'm currently trying to build a computer game too, but how to organize it all (menu system, game manager, save system, ingame actors and objects, gameplay logic, metagame) is something I have not yet understood on how to do it. I was hoping someone could help explain how they do it and what is their thought process while building the architecture of a full game?

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A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Disappointed in AVWW

« on: May 01, 2012, 11:06:48 AM »

Shallow Action Mechanics - I think there are two things at issue here. On is that I think we just don't have enough enemies yet, but as we add more, things will get more and more complex as you progress, making the combat feel more like the obstacle it's supposed to be.

Simply saturating the game with more content is not going to fix the shallowness of the combat.

Not entirely true. While I doubt anything spectacular will be added, new variety (beyond just reskins and sound file swaps and the like) can provide more complex challenges. For example, when urban crawlers were added, they had a feel entirely their own. Can't hurt them from the front effectively, you have to strike low or circle behind. It feels more like a tactical combat, whereas all the other enemy types are just strafe-jump and shoot. More enemies like that brings depth to combat. Fundamentally yes, it will always be shooty jumpy, but what else could it be?

Adding new enemies is only one aspect, but its not enough on its own. You can add as many varied enemies with new mechanics to them as you want, but as long as the fundamental core of the combat is shallow as it is now, all that work for extra monsters won't matter much beyond 5 seconds when you first encounter them and understand how they work. Once the player has figured out what he is dealing with, the excitment of a new enemy type vanishes as fast as it came and turns into a routine, which is ultimately the same old grindy and boring combat it was before.

Unfortunately the solution to this is not easy at all and requires a heavy overhaul of character, environment and weapon behaviour design. I'm not convinced Arcen is going to do such an undertaking just when the game is released or even after a year or two. Probably its better off creating a new game from scratch with the right design, but I don't know.

I've already uninstalled AVWW, so I don't care as much, but I will keep tracking Arcen on what they do next and if they do come up with something, then I'll absolutely give it another try, but for now AVWW just ain't fun to play.

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A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Disappointed in AVWW

« on: May 01, 2012, 04:49:05 AM »

Shallow Action Mechanics - I think there are two things at issue here. On is that I think we just don't have enough enemies yet, but as we add more, things will get more and more complex as you progress, making the combat feel more like the obstacle it's supposed to be.

Simply saturating the game with more content is not going to fix the shallowness of the combat.

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A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Disappointed in AVWW

« on: April 30, 2012, 12:57:40 PM »

I agree on most point and I'd like to add some:

Shallow Action Mechanics

This goes together with Grinding as mentioned. After playing AVWW for an extended period, I found the combat mechanics very shallow. Mostly you end up spamming the same most effective spell you find while placing platforms every one a while, while boringly toying with enemies as both of you exchange fire. Ultimately the different elements don't really mean much other than changing what color or shape your ranged attack becomes. It all feels like grindy rinse and repeat. I'm more focused on looking at health bars and resistance values than caring about the monster itself, making the whole experience feel like I'm fighting number values, bars and percentage values than actual entities. The game simply allows the player to see through it, thats why it feels this way.

I've read Chris Park's blog and I found out that AVWW was first played from a fake top-down perspective. Now, I'm not a fan of old roguelikes or games with top-down perspectives, but the combat system AVWW has was obviously originally tailored for it as it feels like your traditional RPG combat model where you attack in turns and watch numbers go down, not participate in the actual action physically, so to speak. In RPG's, you are not the player, you're controlling him as a puppetmaster, giving him orders to perform this skill or use this item. In a pure action game where you have direct control over the character, you ARE the character physically ingame. What happens in AVWW is an identity crisis when the combat model of RPG is shoehorned into a direct action orientated combat model.

Stuff AVWW lacks is better reactiveness of entities (more detail of interaction between enemies, players and projectiles), more detail of character control (more momentum based movement, crouch walking, sliding, dodge moves, dynamic spell attacks (charge up spell power, movement affects spell power etc.)) and less predictable world behaviour (Interiors in houses are completely not what the house advertises, monster are predictably always present in an area as in EVERY AREA, every biome and every house layout is always the same in terms of content despite the procedural generations, so its never a suprise what you will encounter next and it feels like it renders the fancy procedural generation mechanics obsolete or even annoying).


Like OP said, I really want to like AVWW, but it ultimately kills itself and its potential with the things that have been mentioned by the OP and me. Perhaps its not a game for me, while it certainly has aspects that really interest me, especially the overworld systems and the idea behind it, but it just shoots itself in the foot by having such shallow combat mechanics and systems that are focused on grinding and exploring predictably generated locations and missions. It lacks emergent gameplay to make your own story rather than get shoehorned by the game to do something it tells you to.

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A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Some feedback on AVWW - (face melting aesthetics)

« on: April 30, 2012, 11:09:47 AM »

*can't really be bothered to trawl the entire thread.*

People are still complaining about graphics...really?

I guess it doesnt bother you since you're already wearing glasses.

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AVWW Technical Support / Re: Had a power outage during playing, world cannot load

« on: April 30, 2012, 11:05:35 AM »

What about the file I attached to the OP?

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A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Poll: LEAST favorite mission type

« on: April 30, 2012, 06:52:15 AM »

Fix anachronism or whatever.

It's bad enough to have to go from room to room killing random monsters as a mission type, it's even worse when you're not allowed to kill certain types.

This.
I did my first mission of this type and it was complete bullshit. It made me ragequit and almost shift-delete the AVWW installation.
I was forced into a corner by enemies that I cannot kill and they didn't let me pass through no matter what.

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AVWW Technical Support / Re: Had a power outage during playing, world cannot load

« on: April 30, 2012, 04:15:06 AM »

Welp, I ended up deleting my old world completely and starting anew, but this message always stays open the entire time:



I can now play just fine, but that massive error message persists in the upper right corner the whole time and doesn't go away.
Even disabling the chat console in the option does nothing.

It seems I'll have to reinstall AVWW completely, hold my breath and cross my fingers that I wouldn't have another power outage while I'm playing it.

11

AVWW Technical Support / Re: Had a power outage during playing, world cannot load

« on: April 29, 2012, 10:25:30 AM »

Alright, here it is, taken from the Worlds folder in its entirety.

12

AVWW Technical Support / Had a power outage during playing, world cannot load

« on: April 29, 2012, 06:40:59 AM »

As the title says, I was playing AVWW when suddenly power went down in my house. Everything went dark and AVWW was terminated abruptly in the process.

After the power came back, I tried playing AVWW again, but first it complained about the lock.dat file because the game was closed so abruptly (everything got shut down in my house just like that), so I went ahead and did as the instructions told me to and deleted that said file. I closed AVWW before doing so.

Next I run AVWW once again after deleting that lock.dat file and attempt to load the world. I get this: (Screenshot)

http://i47.tinypic.com/kcbkht.jpg

I also attached the UnhandledErrors.txt below. Up until this incident, the game worked flawlessly so far.

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A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Re: Some feedback on AVWW - (face melting aesthetics)

« on: April 29, 2012, 04:30:03 AM »

Anyone got a way to desaturate several hundred .png files all at once? Can IrfanView do anything like that? That'd make a good start for some of the more glaring textures.

Paint Shop Pro 9 or Photoshop can do that with a thing called the "Batch" function. You can even have complex instruction steps for all the images to run through and it will do that all automatically.


Anyway, I'm glad atleast one developer noticed this thread, so now they are aware of the issues and its suggestions to some extent. The rest is up to them.


Also some of you are talking about a graphics overhaul; its not absolutely necessary to draw everything from scratch.
The problem is mostly associated with Brightness, Contrast and Saturation levels for the existing work and can be improved by tweaking those settings alone. Ofcourse its not so straight-forward and it will take time to get the values right, but just keep in mind that you don't need to scrap any existing artwork to improve the aesthetics.

14

A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 / Some feedback on AVWW - (face melting aesthetics)

« on: April 28, 2012, 02:25:30 PM »

Hi Arcen Community

I recently got the game and spent a couple hours into it, there is some feedback that I wanted to give based on my experience so far.


First some compliments:

From a design standpoint, I love it. A Valley Without Wind is a vast game with lots of meaningful and useful systems that tie the whole experience together extremely well. While it does require you to stop and read a bit, and also use your head to figure out how certain things work (i. e. this is not a game you play mindlessly or get away with stupidity), you can get into it fairly easy and the game has numerous ways to guide and help you figure out how it works, even despite so many "hidden" features scattered across its design that are not so apparent at first.

Also the way its designed to have infinite gameplay and focused support for co-op is just awesome.

Now for some critisism and suggestions...


The Uncanny Valley effect of the aesthetics in AVWW:

Ever since I saw the trailers and screenshots, the visual side of AVWW felt really out of place and wierd, in a bad way. However what got me interested in the game so much to get it, was its design and idea behind it.

Now that I've actually played it for a couple good hours, got a hang of the gameplay and seen it all in action, I'd like to give some constructive critisism about this issue because after playing AVWW, my eyes are extremely tired and I have a minor headache too. There are multiple aspects what is wrong with the aesthetics.

Important note:

Please, don't get me wrong, the massive effort that went into each graphical asset is obvious, so I must stress that I'm not berating the actual artwork assets. They're lovingly crafted and detailed to the last perfection. The point I'm critisizing is the aesthetics, in other words how all those assets work together ingame. The overall mood and feel.

1. Detail Overload

In AVWW, you move very fast, change areas often and constantly explore ever new areas in this game. Every time you enter a new area, your eyes and brain are overwhelmed by massive amounts of new information, most of it critical to your survival, so you cannot ignore it so easily.

Whats worse is that that information is extremely rich in detail. The scenery, the terrain surface, the background, the enemies, your character and the UI are all so extremely detailed that it makes your face melt from the sheer brutal amount of information you get bombarded. And the fact the game is fast paced and keeps taking you to new places at a fast rate, your eyes and brain are subconsiously heavily strained. This makes the whole game VERY hard on the eyes and difficult for the brain to handle in the long run.

I really don't want to say "make your art more simple", but for things that are in the background, its probably necessary (and perhaps the only way) to simplify them and kill off some detail from those background-orientated elements. In theory, this can be achieved using blur, desaturation and lowering contrast. There is no need to do new art from scratch, just tweak the existing art assets to be more kind on the eye as a whole.

2. Too Sharp Contrast, Brightness and Saturation

Simply put; the background, scenery, projectiles and actors blend together too strongly, are too bright and too colorful.
What happens is that it becomes sometimes hard to distinguish actors, projectiles and objects in the game. Its not a complete mess, but it really takes heavy effort from the brain and eyes to identify what is what on the screen. Again, the fact that everything is so detailed and how fast you move in the game only add to the problem.

Turn down the saturation, brightness and contrast for things that are in the background and the opposite for more active and important things that are in the foreground.

3. Menu Information Overload and UI Text Size

I'll be blunt; the default UI text is so damn small that I need to squint my eyes to read it properly. And my eye-sight is sharp.
And it doesn't help at all that there is lots of that said text, most if not all of it quite interesting and useful (and funny, I love the gravestones humor in the tutorial btw, very clever).

Probably try a bigger font size or different font or having more division of text paragraphs so they're more spaced out and thus easier to follow and read.

The aesthetics are pretty much my only legitimate complaint about AVWW I have so far that has had a negative effect on my playsession. The rest of my post is mostly suggestions that could make AVWW better function-wise.



Key Combo Input to use spells and custom key combo editor for said purpose:

The movement, inventory management and attacking work very smoothly in AVWW, but managing your spells is very cumbersome on the fly. You can indeed pause the game and stop to manage your spells, but that kills the momentum of the game too often.

Currently you can use 2 spells (with the mouse buttons) at one given time effectively without needing to stop or make your hand to bend and stretch over the keyboard to hit a 1-9 hotkey or right-click the icon in the spell hotbar without messing your concentration, aim or movement. But commonly, you end up using 4-5 spells/items on a regular basis so this is not so good and the combat fun suffers from this.

One idea I had is to allow the player to assign a custom key combo to a spell in his/her inventory. A shining example is that "Storm Dash" spell that makes you run super fast (I love that one spell so much btw).

Some spells might have pre-set combo to use them automatically, while others don't, but allow you to assign them or edit such a key combo for automatic use.

A key combo can be any sequence or simultaneous combination of keys using the movements buttons (WASD), spell usage buttons (Mouse 1 & 2) and perhaps a special modifier key (F key is a good candidate, it also seems like a free key according to the default control setup).

You could pause the game or otherwise select a spell and have an option to edit a key combo for it. It would open a small window where you can enter a sequence of keys and then save it for that spell. You can also remove key combos in the same window.

With this feature, you would be able to use more spells actively exactly how you want, without needing to pause the game and thus keeping up a higher ingame momentum of action.



Default key for Pause is a bit cumbersome:

Okay, this issue can be fixed by the user in 2 seconds, but seriously, pausing in this game is something you would do often and its also very useful otherwise, so having it bound to P by default doesn't make much sense. You have to either let go of the mouse or abandon your movement controls (Not good) to reach the "p" key on your keyboard every time you want to scan the enemy or pause the game to re-arrange your spell or otherwise.

I personally have set it to Q (I hope that "cancel enemy targetting" function wasn't anything important) and its much better.



"Look forward" function is too limited:

You have a lot of vertical movement in AVWW, and when I pressed 'g' for the first time to use the "look ahead" function, it was dissapointing.

I'd suggested that while you hold 'g', you may move your mouse cursor freely and the camera would follow it any direction you drag it towards. The limit would be that the you cannot look so far that the player leaves the screen, but you can actually look ahead freely in any direction you want as long you hold 'g', not just limited to forward only.

If you've played ever played Soldat or King Arthurs Gold, that is the kind of camera mechanic I'm talking about.