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Messages - Wanderer

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901
Well, with my current game, the AI got blade spawners.

While I can safely* say that they are getting more blade spawners per guard post, the rate at which they are getting them doesn't seem to be unreasonable, yet at least.
Unlike before where their numbers had a sane cap but their rate had the potential to grow out of control.

*or rather unsafely, because its blade spawners in AI hands!  :o
Good to hear it's going about the process of shredding all trace of humanity in a reasonable, equitable fashion ;)

"YESSIRREEE ladies and gentlement, right here right now you have you very own chance to see a demonstration of the AI Cuisinart being used properly!  Step right up, step right up, don't be shy now.  When else will you have a chance to see the human civilazation mincemeatmaker working at its finest levels of control under the hands of an unruly AI?  What?!  NO!  Of course it's perfectly safe, just step right up!  And REMEMBER!  Distrubition of this fine model of mechanical mayhem is now being properly distributed across ALL of your cities!  That's right!  No more horribly uneven distrubution!  Our suppliers have gotten their acts together and you, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, can own one right here right now.  Yessiree!  Step right on up!"

So says the publicist standing outside the appliance store, which just so happens to be next to a butchers store.

Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd!  He served a dark and avengeful god!  What happened then, well that's the play, and he wouldn't want us to give it away....

902
AI War / Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (V)
« on: April 11, 2012, 02:22:47 PM »
6) Harvesters, still far too weak.  It takes me 5 minutes to have my econ at 1 mill/1mill with these at level III in the opening part of the game.  That's just wrong for the cost.  Sheesh.  Please, buff these.  Maybe we can add a mechanic where each MK III harvester will pump out a MK V patrolling zombie fighter or something, or just a random unlocked fleet ship.
Was this a "let's see if anyone thinks I'm being sarcastic" check? ;)

TL;DR check, actually, but yes. ;)  I felt the need to show my wiseass.  I would hate to see harvesters with a cap.  Annoying micro I'd like to avoid.

I find maws amazingly effective, I don't feel they're unbalanced at all with the current caps.  That may just be me though.  They are an amazingly powerful tool.  Give me 20 or 30 at MK I with lower total swallows and I can probably inhale entire planets.  If further discussion continues with them, keep in mind that even MK 1s can eat MK V ships.  They are one of my goto ships for dealing with core/home worlds.

903
Well, with my current game, the AI got blade spawners.

While I can safely* say that they are getting more blade spawners per guard post, the rate at which they are getting them doesn't seem to be unreasonable, yet at least.
Unlike before where their numbers had a sane cap but their rate had the potential to grow out of control.

*or rather unsafely, because its blade spawners in AI hands!  :o
Good to hear it's going about the process of shredding all trace of humanity in a reasonable, equitable fashion ;)

"YESSIRREEE ladies and gentlement, right here right now you have you very own chance to see a demonstration of the AI Cuisinart being used properly!  Step right up, step right up, don't be shy now.  When else will you have a chance to see the human civilazation mincemeatmaker working at its finest levels of control under the hands of an unruly AI?  What?!  NO!  Of course it's perfectly safe, just step right up!  And REMEMBER!  Distrubition of this fine model of mechanical mayhem is now being properly distributed across ALL of your cities!  That's right!  No more horribly uneven distrubution!  Our suppliers have gotten their acts together and you, EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, can own one right here right now.  Yessiree!  Step right on up!"

904
AI War / Re: Updating the Wiki
« on: April 11, 2012, 12:01:19 AM »
Alright.

All ship and structure specific pages are done.

Just as a double check can some people check against a bonus ship type they have in their game please?

I want to make sure my template code did not screw up half way through.

Thanks.

D.

Dazio... don't know if anyones mentioned this to you yet but HOLY MOTHER OF MOSES... that's a TON of pages and work you've put in.  Eventually I'll need to have you teach me how templates work, my wiki-fu is fail.  errr, I'm meandering a topic again.

DUDE, AWESOME WORK!  Thanks!

905
AI War / Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (V)
« on: April 10, 2012, 11:52:10 PM »
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with everyone regarding decoy drones, but not because of their lack of power in the player's hands.  Add the support style AI to any game, and you'll see how brutal decoys can be in the AI's hands.  They don't need a buff or nerf, they need to be glared at until the targetting mechanics for them are better understood.

Currently, what happens when a number of decoy drones come in is everything fires at ONE.  Then, when the rest are all streaming at the targets, your entire fleet fires at... ONE MORE.  Rinse/repeat for half a large planet, or until everything's on the command station in a small one.

However, my current personal votes are not from ships that I look at and scoff, but from ships I wish were actually useful (in my hands, in the case of teleporting ships).

1) Neinzul Factory Ships.  Their K prices, enforced Engineer III investment, and tin-plating make them more of a novelty ship then something you could use with heavy strategy.

2) Fleet Support Ship K rebalancing.  I'd like them to reflect their K costs more efficiently, and a better idea of how many ships each of them can boost within the fleet.  I'd expect a flock of MK I Fleet SSs to be able to boost a full fleetball of MK I fleet ships.  The new modifications got them in-line with each other, but their K costs are outrageous for what you actually gain.

3) Riot Starship III.  I've never been in a game where I've looked at the Riot III and said "I *want* that."  Can't remember the last time I said "'eh, they might be nice" either.

4) Teleporting ships in general, but not because of the ship themselves.  Does EVERYTHING I'd want to teleport raid really need to be Minor Electric Immune?  They can't stay with the fleet ball so they pretty much have to be a micro'd force and/or a raiding force.  These are the mechnics surrounding them that make me not want to use them.

5) Warheads.  Desperately. 

If I'm staring at a threatball or situation that's dangerous enough that I'm willing to trade AIP for destruction, these things need to destroy the target.  Threatballs of that danger already are larger in distance surrounding an inbound warp gate then the largest AoE available (which is, strangely, on the smallest missile).  Couple that with the AoE immune triangle ship (always a thorn in my side) and you've reduced, tremendously, the value of these items. 

The Tachyon Missile is merely a 'decloaker's too fragile, where's the stealth post' missile.  It's too expensive. 

EMPs could be fun but it's a minimum of 2 AIP for 30 seconds and doesn't work against the ships you REALLY need them for, MK V, particularly if they're doing a gate-camp. 

Armored are utterly pointless.  The only thing you need an armored missile for is popping particular and specific AI HW guardposts which are surrounded by, and include, warhead interceptors.  If you could pop the interceptors, you could pop the guardpost(s).

6) Harvesters, still far too weak.  It takes me 5 minutes to have my econ at 1 mill/1mill with these at level III in the opening part of the game.  That's just wrong for the cost.  Sheesh.  Please, buff these.  Maybe we can add a mechanic where each MK III harvester will pump out a MK V patrolling zombie fighter or something, or just a random unlocked fleet ship.

7) K costs for most, if not all, starships, in general.  The only ones I agree with currently are Raid and Cloaker.  Even after playing around with them heavily I don't see the need for higher MK Scouts nor can justify the K cost for the III/IV.  You get the MK IV fleet-scout for free eventually since you have to picket so many worlds and will simply need the volume of fleet scout III to do it in most games.  Well, I do anyway.

906
AI War / Re: Updating the Wiki
« on: April 10, 2012, 11:25:07 PM »
There was also a hanging link on the main page for requirements for winning, so I went ahead and filled that in too.  I'm sure it'll get massaged into a better form eventually:
http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Prerequisites_to_Winning

I'm not picking on Wanderer here, he stated himself that the page may need some "massaging".

Heh, unfortunately my understanding of thier implementation was just what I wrote.  It's easy enough to make it prettier.  And no, constructive criticism that isn't "Dude, that sux." isn't picking on me, it's welcome. :)

I also apparently wasn't obvious enough that you can turn them off very easily if they're a problem for your preference in playstyles.

Edit: I've modified the tone of that passage heavily.  Thanks for letting me know it was coming off as a whiny rant. :)

907
AI War / Re: Updating the Wiki
« on: April 08, 2012, 11:00:24 AM »

I've modified some of the wiki tonight, and one of the things I did was include a new hacking overview page.  It includes enough details, I feel, to inform a player of what they're getting into and the rough mechanics of it, but not be overwhelming.

http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Hacking

That's really helpful - thank you!  :D

If you're feeling energetic, there are a few additional details that would really help a player decide where, when, and how to hack optimally:
  • Is the AI's response to hacking influenced by AI progress?
  • Is the AI's response to hacking influenced by the mark level of the planet being hacked?
  • What is the effect of having multiple knowledge hackers on the same planet simultaneously?  (I'd guess two hackers would get the job done in half the time but with double the intensity of AI response, but it would be nice to know for sure.)

Not anymore, No, and it's a linear progression of pain. 2xhacker = 2xspawn volume.

908
AI War / Re: Updating the Wiki
« on: April 08, 2012, 03:46:19 AM »
Cross posting from the learning the game thread:

I've modified some of the wiki tonight, and one of the things I did was include a new hacking overview page.  It includes enough details, I feel, to inform a player of what they're getting into and the rough mechanics of it, but not be overwhelming.

http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Hacking

There was also a hanging link on the main page for requirements for winning, so I went ahead and filled that in too.  I'm sure it'll get massaged into a better form eventually:
http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Prerequisites_to_Winning

909
AI War / Re: Learning the Game
« on: April 08, 2012, 03:45:59 AM »
I agree with both positions. I think things need to be covered in the wiki, but I do think there is such a thing as an excess of detail.

I've modified some of the wiki tonight, and one of the things I did was include a new hacking overview page.  It includes enough details, I feel, to inform a player of what they're getting into and the rough mechanics of it, but not be overwhelming.

http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Hacking

910
AI War / Re: Preventing Repair?
« on: April 06, 2012, 11:37:54 AM »
Yeah, you want to adjust your value for 'don't assist large construction items'.  CTRLs menu, center column, last value.

911
After Action Reports / Re: 110 Planets. On a non-forced Chokepoint map
« on: April 06, 2012, 01:17:04 AM »
With so many systems to defend, i was really just waiting for that to happen. The reason i try not to take over 30 planets - not enough shields and defences to cover all of them, so if a small bunch of stray AI ships makes it through your defence, you can end up wasting an hour catching them and rebuilding. Or some bad event might happen in the meantime, like an exo or CPA, and force you back to homeworld.

I wonder what the reinforcements are like for the AI systems. I really expected the systems to get flooded with defence ships extremely quickly at this AIP level. Yet from the screenshots i see only 700-800 ships in the more defended systems.

What's really funny is after a CPA, when the "really defended" systems have 50-60 ships.

Yeah, I'm finding CPAs are great for emptying out systems that have heavily reinforced.  If you can weather the CPA, it's smash and grab time.

912
AI War / Re: What is a MK upgrade really worth?
« on: April 04, 2012, 06:53:54 PM »
Quote
Alright, back of the envelope math.

Are 8 caps of different Mark 4 ships capable of defending a factory 4 against Fallen Spire 7-10 exo-waves with 7-10 golems? 

(Fighter, Bomber, Frigate, Blade Spawner, Impulse Reaction Emitter, Raider, Eye Bots, & Munitions Boosters)

i'm thinking the answer is no, with a side of maybe.

No, they CAN be stopped.  Just takes a few systems.  Had to do it on the completionist 120 planet snake I played.  Let's just say "overwhelming firepower" and "Holy crap, there's an atmosphere inside that many forcefields" came into play. :)

913
AI War / Re: What is a MK upgrade really worth?
« on: April 04, 2012, 02:34:55 PM »
Alright, back of the envelope math.
Projected outcome: you'll get a few lines into the preliminary calculations just as the first artillery golem shot blasts the envelope to bits.

Then you realize it'll come down to three things.  1) How far away the MK IV is from the wormhole.  2) How many grav turrets are between the two.  3) Did they build the CnC in the chapel or not.

914
AI War / Re: Learning the Game
« on: April 04, 2012, 02:32:50 PM »
A win vs. 10/10 is filed under "bug reports".
If it's not cheese like two non-wave-sending AI types, etc :)
Baaaaah!  I resemble that remark!

915
AI War / Re: Learning the Game
« on: April 04, 2012, 02:10:11 PM »
Wanderer: Yea, I definitely get the inclination that a lot of losing will be involved on the way to learning how to play. I play piano and read a book on technique with playing songs. One of the things that it emphasizes is that many players will make a mistake and then keep playing the song the same way. They never stop to evaluate why the mistake happened so certain mistakes in their playing become engrained habits instead of just things that could have been corrected early on. Obviously there is no mistake here in the sense of hitting the wrong note, but I'm trying to avoid the situation where I'm making mistakes, losing, and starting a new game with no particular idea of what I did wrong in the last one. For instance I might interpret that the large wave I lost against in late mid-game was the result of what I was doing at the time when I could have been doing the same thing just fine if I had done something a little different in the beginning. That sort of thing.
Understood, however using your analogy, this is more like trying to pick up what the violin was doing wrong in the symphony.  Eventually you'll learn to hear it.
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I guess what confuses me is the balance between offense and defense. A lot of systems that get taken seem to be offensive. Let me define what I'm talking about here, and you can correct me if my definitions are wrong. It seems to me that a system taken defensively is one taken almost exclusively to protect my core system or a valuable resource.
Basically, but what's a valuable resource?  Once you've gotten the K out of a system, what reason are you holding it for?  Are there unmovable fabricators there?  ARSs once captured are just glorified research stations, the research on the new ship is yours forever. Do you need the econ?  Is it worth the defense from random drifters compared to the ease you can rebuild your econ station there with?

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There's a high-resource system one hop from a different one.
I never evaluate systems on this basis, though with the new harvester changes I might start.

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So taking that ARS system two hops away will help me build up my fleet but will also split my resources into defending a system now surrounded by hostile systems. It seems I might want to neuter the system that was one hop away for defensive purposes in that case.
...or neuter everything surrounding it so you can ignore the satellite system except during major events.

Quote
I think that's why the "islands" thing confused me. I felt every system should have a defensive gain as well, but it's not going to. The "turtles" then would be the people who build up a high level of defenses while attempting to minimize their offensive maneuvers down to only the absolute necessities.
It CAN, but then you're talking a completionist campaign.  Those are fun, actually, but you have to be prepared for the equivalent of World War III.  My personal 'generic' strategy is harden the core, protect more heavily important worlds with fabricators, give any other systems a reasonable chance at survival without intervention except during major events, and then kill an AI.  Some worlds are simply taken in my games as step-stones.   I don't even bother trying to get research stations/cmdstations/etc on the world, because they'll have things I don't want to capture and possibly lose (Human Prison Camps come to mind) and I just need the world to continue advancing from.

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