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|ID||Project||Category||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0003847||AI War||Suggestion - Game Mechanics||Sep 16, 2011 8:06 am||Feb 26, 2012 6:23 pm|
|Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0003847: Make manufactory management more effective|
|Description||Currently, manufactories turn on and off one at a time, no matter how large the deficiency is. This makes it extremely inefficient when there is a large deficiency and you have many manufactories. I suggest that multiple manufactories would turn on and off at the same time to meet the demand; if five manufactories are needed to even out the demand, then five would turn on. If seventeen are needed, seventeen would turn on, and so on.|
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Sep 16, 2011 2:40 pm
|biggest problem with this is that if one is short usually the other is short too. my bigger problem is that when we hit a suplus it doesn't turn on the manufactories to burn the surplus into the shortage.|
Sep 16, 2011 2:47 pm
The first shouldn't be a problem at all, really. Simple math should be able to determine how many manufactories should be turned on in order to balance the usage.
As for the second, I think that's been up here before, and isn't an issue for this report anyway.
Sep 16, 2011 3:11 pm
First, it already detects the case where both resources are too low and turns off manufactures as needed in light of that.
Second, If you are referring to what happens when one of the resources hits 999,999, then it already handles that too (if one resource is at 999,999, and the other isn't, the auto-management will turn on all manufactories it can for that resource to increase income of the resource that is not maxed out)
Sep 16, 2011 5:50 pm
|my question how many manufactory, people have on average. i tend to have 160 each for 10 planet map. i tend to have 2 for harvester. just i hate wasting resources lol.|
Sep 16, 2011 11:09 pm
Wow, and I thought I was being excessive with my 60 of each. :P
Though admittedly, back when arc build was still in the game, I used that to build around 300 of each.
Sep 17, 2011 2:32 pm
|Personally I think they are fine as is, although if they were to change maybe 2-3x as fast it may be an improvement. Note ofc that you ideally would not actually need to use them.|
Sep 23, 2011 9:41 pm
edited on: Sep 23, 2011 10:07 pm
my experience actually is that i build 90 or so of each. and they turn on 1 at a time every 5 seconds so i lose alot o minerals and time when they adjust incorrectly. hitting the cap doesnt turn them on instantly it jsut pushes the start turning them on code slow and steady and is part of what this thread is about. that the adjustment doesnt happen fast enough to adjust to any major shift.
my main concerns are actually that it doesnt seek a balance and so doesnt seem to adjust properly at either really low say under 1k values of minerals nor in the case of excessive quanities of any one mineral while other is in shortage.
if i have 500k metal and 4k crystal they should be running crystal and they dont at present. i understand that given build times on 20 factories running variable queues this is what causes the issue as demand shifts constantly. my thought is merely that the logic regarding behavior at extremes need to be reexamined. in the both under 1k there really isnt much to do because you dont actually want them on as they generate a shortage being on. but once one is going over 5k and the other is out they need to adjust faster to maintain the building rates being supported. and micromanaging this from 5 systems away is just plain annoying.
i do want to mention that so far i have had little to no problems with shortage behavior but only the excess behaviors not seeking to fill a obvious shortage before it gets amplified. notably this is usually in the direction of crystal when i need to relocate a chokepoint i end up with a 1.5m crystal deficit. that doesnt get responded to until my crystal is empty. if they had adjusted when my crystal demand went -25k/sec then they could have limited the crippling stunt when it ran out. but instead it takes 5 minutes for them to finally finish kicking on because of the current trigger logic. to further this line i do turn them on during this process but the auto adjuster turns them off again, slowly admittedly, but totally contrary to the trend they are meant to address.
to further illustrate this i will mention the main problem comes when my minerals are for example 250k metal 15k crystal both positive(no matter what proportion), the current behavior turns all the convertors off. instead i think it should be adjusting to the shortage of crystal since metal exceeds it by more than 50% and trying to bring this into balance before consumption shifts and drives metal even higher because crystal is often in more demand or vice-verse.
this seems to be cause by the seeking a balance in consumption without factoring in surplus. so it seeks even consumption of each but tends to ignore a surplus of material to consume in one category or the other. i am not telling you its unworkable only that it doesn't work as well as it could with a few logic fixes.
now moving in a totally different direction. i want to suggest a time saving convention that may have more value than the process of individually turning them on and off. the resources are stored in a in and out stack that allows all the ques to function simultaneously and quickly. you might conside each building of this type to add to a floating value for overflow/cost. this way rather than adjusting each building you can adjust a central accounting value and track to prevent over consumption. i.e.
build a metal converter. add 2 to metal overflow and -4 crystal oversupply.
yes you will have both a metal overflow, metal flow, and metal oversupply. this way you can quickly and easily adjust the limits and amount to adjust on the fly.
so when metal is demanded it checks for metal overflow to add metal and during that checks for crystal flow so it doesn't overspend crystal. when building is destroyed it adjusts the values and so auto-adjusts to building destruction without needing to check each building to see if functioning. only downside is if you are factoring power into activated building but in this case make people pay the power as a contingency fee whether it is functioning or not.
i hope this will make it simpler and less process time spent on resource management since the math becomes more straightforward then calculating 50-500 buildings one at a time. though i would recommend putting in a doublecheck during the cleanup cycles that i assume run once in a while. and the oversupply marks are for checking and consuming excesses when there is an imbalance leading to one or the other exceeding 50% of each other so it can keep them in balance.
Feb 26, 2012 6:23 pm
|I would like to see this featured looked at. In my 10/10 game, very often I would have to go and turn on a huge bulk of them, given that I am at 999,999 metal at +3000/s and 0000605:0001000 crystal at -2300/s. In the case that one is capped and the other is not, it should instantly turn any positive flow into the other kind, and fall back to normal logic when the metal starts to drain.|
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|Supporters:||TechSY730 Commiesalami Eternaly_Lost Spikey00 motai Astilious alf666 contingencyplan|
|Opponents:||No one explicitly opposes this issue yet.|
|Sep 16, 2011 8:06 am||Toll||New Issue|
|Sep 16, 2011 2:40 pm||motai||Note Added: 0013233|
|Sep 16, 2011 2:47 pm||Toll||Note Added: 0013234|
|Sep 16, 2011 3:11 pm||TechSY730||Note Added: 0013235|
|Sep 16, 2011 5:50 pm||soMe_RandoM||Note Added: 0013236|
|Sep 16, 2011 11:09 pm||TechSY730||Note Added: 0013238|
|Sep 17, 2011 2:32 pm||Ranakastrasz||Note Added: 0013239|
|Sep 23, 2011 9:41 pm||motai||Note Added: 0013456|
|Sep 23, 2011 9:57 pm||motai||Note Edited: 0013456||View Revisions|
|Sep 23, 2011 10:00 pm||motai||Note Edited: 0013456||View Revisions|
|Sep 23, 2011 10:07 pm||motai||Note Edited: 0013456||View Revisions|
|Feb 26, 2012 6:23 pm||Eternaly_Lost||Note Added: 0019840|
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